Do you just have to have trust?

[Traijan]

Hi,

So, my wife and I went into a new (new to us) vape store and had a nice long talk with one of the workers/owners. He told us up front that almost every mech mod and some vv/vw devices that they sell in their store are clones but that they do carry the authentic iTaste VTR. We got into a long discussion about it and he had said that you just have to have trust, trust that whom you're buying your device from that tells you it's authentic is really selling you an authentic device. We did ask why so many clones and so few authentic mods and the answer from him was simple and concise, "they sell, authentic devices don't sell nearly as well". Understandable.

He pulled out all kinds of different clone mods and said that if he wanted to be dishonest he could sell some $50 mech mod for the $265 that the original one goes for as it's absolutely identical to the authenticate mod, down to the paperwork included with the mod. We asked how he gets away with selling it as a clone when it's identical and he simply said that he tells people up front that it's a clone, AND he removes the paperwork that comes in the box (with this particular clone) that is identical in every way to the letter that comes with the authentic device so that people don't get any other idea that they are buying anything but a clone.

But that pretty much leaves me wondering, is there any solid way of telling if something is authentic or a clone? I imagine it's not hard to tell if something is a clone if it's not identical, or if it's of terribly inferior quality as then you might be able to spot certain differences, but if it's truly a 1:1 clone, do you just have to have faith or trust in the store that you're dealing with?

I did mention "online prices" and while he's not against people going online to get what they want, he said that I just have to watch out as now there are clones to the clones and possibly clones to the clones to the clones out there being sold either as the authentic device and or as a clone when it might be a clone to a clone and in some ways inferior in quality and craftsmanship etc.

I'm guessing we just have to have some trust in that when a sales clerk tells me it's authentic or a clone that I've just got to believe them and have no real certain way of telling if a mod is a clone or authentic unless mods come with authenticator stickers like some tanks do.

 

[swizzcheese]

A lot of websites and stores have built up a reputation as being honest. Beyond that, some clone manufacturers will also remove the device logo so you can tell it's not an authentic. Some people see that as the more ethical route anyway, since although it does perform in the same way as an authentic, it makes no pretense about its true "worth." Personally my kayfun is 1:1 on the logo and the etchings and everything so I would have had no idea if it didn't come in a box that was obviously from a clone manufacturer.

Also, some devices will go so far as to copying even the packaging that they come in. People have posted these device-specific guides around online to help people make sure what they have is what they are expecting.

 

[Rule62]

I have a collection of authentic mods. All have been purchased from the manufacturers.

 

[Traijan]

I have a collection of authentic mods. All have been purchased from the manufacturers.

That indeed does sound like a solid way of making sure that what you are buying is authentic if it's the manufacturer themselves selling it. I guess that hadn't really crossed my mind since we're always looking out for a good deal and many times the manufacturers list their items at their MSRP and their retailers often list lower or at least lower when on sale. But yeah, I guess that's pretty much a 100% solid way if you want to make sure something is authentic.

Personally, I'm finding it hard to trust some vape shops when I'm first visiting them since there are now so many in our general area popping up where I go inside and it feels more like sombody's parents had more money than they knew what to do with and felt the need to give their kid(s) something to do after school or something, kind of like hangouts or something.

I suppose it's just something you have to feel out by spending enough time at local B&M stores talking to the owners/workers.

I'm not trying to get into the whole clone vs authentic debate, and I suppose if I bought something that the clerk told me was an authentic and it looked absolutely 100% identical to the authentic and worked 100% like an authentic, well.... I guess I'd actually be torn on the issue knowing that somebody took advantage of me, but on the other hand, I'd have a device that looks 100% authentic and worked 100% authentic and if I was actually willing to spend the higher price tag of the authentic then... Hmmm, guess I'd still feel taken advantage of since they'd be telling me it's authentic when it's a clone.

By the way, on a side note... The serial numbers that are stamped on devices, on authentic units, are those real, or are they simply random numbers that are etched or stamped into the devices? If they're really the run number of the device, (i.e. 0001 is truly the first one ever made) then I'd probably be looking for a really low numbered serial number of devices I might want, but if they're just random numbers (i.e. they produce 2000 devices and stamp or etch them all as #0001 and then produce the next 2000 and number them as #0002) then I'm not so interested when it comes to the more "collecting" hobby aspect of vaping.

 

[sub4me]

Considering most of these devices are made in China you can bet a lot of them come from the same factory. One gets a brand name the other is a generic, other wise they are identical, however this may not always be the case.

 

[wonner]

I trust that if they say it is a clone, and price it as a clone, it is a clone.

Beyond that, all best are off and I don't trust them any farther than I can throw them.

 

[Rule62]

That indeed does sound like a solid way of making sure that what you are buying is authentic if it's the manufacturer themselves selling it. I guess that hadn't really crossed my mind since we're always looking out for a good deal and many times the manufacturers list their items at their MSRP and their retailers often list lower or at least lower when on sale. But yeah, I guess that's pretty much a 100% solid way if you want to make sure something is authentic.

Personally, I'm finding it hard to trust some vape shops when I'm first visiting them since there are now so many in our general area popping up where I go inside and it feels more like sombody's parents had more money than they knew what to do with and felt the need to give their kid(s) something to do after school or something, kind of like hangouts or something.

I suppose it's just something you have to feel out by spending enough time at local B&M stores talking to the owners/workers.

I'm not trying to get into the whole clone vs authentic debate, and I suppose if I bought something that the clerk told me was an authentic and it looked absolutely 100% identical to the authentic and worked 100% like an authentic, well.... I guess I'd actually be torn on the issue knowing that somebody took advantage of me, but on the other hand, I'd have a device that looks 100% authentic and worked 100% authentic and if I was actually willing to spend the higher price tag of the authentic then... Hmmm, guess I'd still feel taken advantage of since they'd be telling me it's authentic when it's a clone.

By the way, on a side note... The serial numbers that are stamped on devices, on authentic units, are those real, or are they simply random numbers that are etched or stamped into the devices? If they're really the run number of the device, (i.e. 0001 is truly the first one ever made) then I'd probably be looking for a really low numbered serial number of devices I might want, but if they're just random numbers (i.e. they produce 2000 devices and stamp or etch them all as #0001 and then produce the next 2000 and number them as #0002) then I'm not so interested when it comes to the more "collecting" hobby aspect of vaping.

Some of the manufacturers will list their authorized resellers on their websites. If you don't want to buy directly from the manufacturer, because of expensive shipping, or whatever, I'd at least buy from an authorized reseller.
As for serial numbers, with authentics, the numbers are sequential. With clones, probably not. Some manufacturers also provide online registration of serial numbers. This can be a help, if you're unsure if a particular mod is an authentic or a clone. Atmomixani, just for example, makers of the Nemesis, lists the serial numbers, and the current owner, as long as the owner registers it.

 

[Miata GT]

Many devices you can tell if you know what to look for, and that's dependent on the device. most time that packaging is different but I've seen KFL+ attys that would have fooled me if I didn't know it was a clone.

The best advice is to buy from a trusted source.

 

[Rule62]

The problem is, as a first time buyer, being unfamiliar with a particular mod, probably could be easily fooled. If you were familiar with a particular mod, you could probably be able to tell if a mod is a clone or an authentic. I own 3 authentic Nemesis; and I've seen several clones. I can tell one from the other, every time. But a person who isn't familiar with them might not. That's why you have to be careful.

 

[VHRB2014]

I once had the opportunity to hold my panzer clone up against a real panzer in the flesh. The cosmetic difference was pretty clear to see, the machining on the original was spotless, ultra sharp and shouted loudly of a much higher quality unit.

Educate yourself, and buy from people you trust.

 

[bluecat]

I once had the opportunity to hold my panzer clone up against a real panzer in the flesh. The cosmetic difference was pretty clear to see, the machining on the original was spotless, ultra sharp and shouted loudly of a much higher quality unit.

Educate yourself, and buy from people you trust.

Unfortunately most of us vapers have no clue what good machining vs poor machining looks like. I know I don't and not gonna try to educate myself on it. I'll stick with the trust part.

 

[rusty zipper]

Good question...

My Infinite clone is a perfect replica of the original, down to the laser etching. Fit and finish is excellent, all copper hardware, So yes, your concern is a valid one. I trust my B&M guys, so no worries for me. A bigger question may be this: if the genuine article is $265, and the clone is $70, and they're virtually identical, why is the genuine article so much more expensive than the clone? I know it costs less to manufacture in China, but $265 vs. $70?

Besides that, I always buy made in the USA, providing I can afford it.

Cheers,
Rusty

 

[edyle]

Hi,

So, my wife and I went into a new (new to us) vape store and had a nice long talk with one of the workers/owners. He told us up front that almost every mech mod and some vv/vw devices that they sell in their store are clones but that they do carry the authentic iTaste VTR. We got into a long discussion about it and he had said that you just have to have trust, trust that whom you're buying your device from that tells you it's authentic is really selling you an authentic device. We did ask why so many clones and so few authentic mods and the answer from him was simple and concise, "they sell, authentic devices don't sell nearly as well". Understandable.

He pulled out all kinds of different clone mods and said that if he wanted to be dishonest he could sell some $50 mech mod for the $265 that the original one goes for as it's absolutely identical to the authenticate mod, down to the paperwork included with the mod. We asked how he gets away with selling it as a clone when it's identical and he simply said that he tells people up front that it's a clone, AND he removes the paperwork that comes in the box (with this particular clone) that is identical in every way to the letter that comes with the authentic device so that people don't get any other idea that they are buying anything but a clone.

But that pretty much leaves me wondering, is there any solid way of telling if something is authentic or a clone? I imagine it's not hard to tell if something is a clone if it's not identical, or if it's of terribly inferior quality as then you might be able to spot certain differences, but if it's truly a 1:1 clone, do you just have to have faith or trust in the store that you're dealing with?

I did mention "online prices" and while he's not against people going online to get what they want, he said that I just have to watch out as now there are clones to the clones and possibly clones to the clones to the clones out there being sold either as the authentic device and or as a clone when it might be a clone to a clone and in some ways inferior in quality and craftsmanship etc.

I'm guessing we just have to have some trust in that when a sales clerk tells me it's authentic or a clone that I've just got to believe them and have no real certain way of telling if a mod is a clone or authentic unless mods come with authenticator stickers like some tanks do.

Of course you can get an authentic original device by getting it from the manufacturer.
And of course you can distinguish an Hcigar clone from the Hcigar logo on the box.

Just as a good counterfeit dollar bill is hard to distinguish from an authentic dollar bill, a good counterfeit product will be hard to distinguish from the authentic product.

Nobody describes a counterfiet dollar bill as an innocent clone dollar bill.
Why describe a counterfeit product that comes complete with paper work and identical in every way including fraudulent logos as a clone ?

 

[Rule62]

The old saying "Trust, but verify" applies. Before I plunked down $250 on a mod in a B&M, just because the guy behind the counter said it was real, I'd want to check it out with a 3rd party, whether it be online, or with someone familiar with that particular mod.

 

[roxynoodle]

Sometimes you can't tell. And its a problem. For this reason I would only buy authentics from the manufacturer or authorized reseller.

Hard to trust buying from the previous owner A friend got cheated.

I have a Taifun GT that is so good I'm not sure most could tell its a clone.