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Comments and votes needed calling out the ECF army
- Thread starter CtryBoy
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K.. PV2 Yawp Reporting For Duty SIR!
K before I go into the typical rant I have just one question, who, or what group is lobbying for us, why can't I find any group to assist this cause?
I was just curious as Google, spits out a lot of info, just watched a you tube vid, apparently e vape's are banned in the UK beginning June 02 2010, but can not locate any further info, well again, ty in advance for allowing me the opportunity to vent some more, as I have a really deep hatred for the NONSMOKERS, as there are nonsmokers, and there are the NONSMOKERS.
So I voted, via another web forum, see how it helps our cause, who see's it, the politicians, doubt it, FDA, probably not, so I have posted my comment below. It all comes down to the Gazillions of Blood (Er Tax) $$$, which they are loosing steadily on a daily basis.
I for one am hoarding every bit I can, and am still looking to see how this Atomizer can be mod at home, gotta be a way, DIY juice , but hoard the nic, because if anyone thinks for a moment that we found a loop hole, well them NONSMOKERS already hate us second rated USA citizens, and they will not tolerate this, esp Uncle Sam.
K Yawp out.
"I just recently learned of the E-Vape. As a smoker for 26 years, I have smoked a pack in a half , this last week, one pack. This week planning on zero.
This is a safe product, I live in a "Free" country, basically what this all boils down to... Uncle Sam doesn't get his blood money from every pack , I mean $5-6 dollars a pack, REALLY?
We smokers have taken enough whoop lah from the politics, what was good for the Native Americans, is fine with me, my health is of no concern to you, so fine I'll smoke by the dumpster. But the tax a bit much.
Yes a smoker has always been a second rated citizen, and now we have to fight for a product that is assisting us in what the "Great" American society wants, to quit smoking, so I say fine, this has been the one thing that has worked for me, the Gums, Patches, and Pills never worked, and from What I can say, this is a safer delivery.
I think the technology is out there, and hopefuly we'll be able to DIY our own, pass the law forbidding a harmless tube that vaporizes liquid, well hope you have more room to lock us up in your already over crowded "slave" Pits.
Leave us be for crying out loud, leave us be.. last thing, remember the "Prohibition" how did that work out for you? I say bye-bye to the raping tax man "Boston Tea Party"2011!"
K before I go into the typical rant I have just one question, who, or what group is lobbying for us, why can't I find any group to assist this cause?
I was just curious as Google, spits out a lot of info, just watched a you tube vid, apparently e vape's are banned in the UK beginning June 02 2010, but can not locate any further info, well again, ty in advance for allowing me the opportunity to vent some more, as I have a really deep hatred for the NONSMOKERS, as there are nonsmokers, and there are the NONSMOKERS.
So I voted, via another web forum, see how it helps our cause, who see's it, the politicians, doubt it, FDA, probably not, so I have posted my comment below. It all comes down to the Gazillions of Blood (Er Tax) $$$, which they are loosing steadily on a daily basis.
I for one am hoarding every bit I can, and am still looking to see how this Atomizer can be mod at home, gotta be a way, DIY juice , but hoard the nic, because if anyone thinks for a moment that we found a loop hole, well them NONSMOKERS already hate us second rated USA citizens, and they will not tolerate this, esp Uncle Sam.
K Yawp out.
"I just recently learned of the E-Vape. As a smoker for 26 years, I have smoked a pack in a half , this last week, one pack. This week planning on zero.
This is a safe product, I live in a "Free" country, basically what this all boils down to... Uncle Sam doesn't get his blood money from every pack , I mean $5-6 dollars a pack, REALLY?
We smokers have taken enough whoop lah from the politics, what was good for the Native Americans, is fine with me, my health is of no concern to you, so fine I'll smoke by the dumpster. But the tax a bit much.
Yes a smoker has always been a second rated citizen, and now we have to fight for a product that is assisting us in what the "Great" American society wants, to quit smoking, so I say fine, this has been the one thing that has worked for me, the Gums, Patches, and Pills never worked, and from What I can say, this is a safer delivery.
I think the technology is out there, and hopefuly we'll be able to DIY our own, pass the law forbidding a harmless tube that vaporizes liquid, well hope you have more room to lock us up in your already over crowded "slave" Pits.
Leave us be for crying out loud, leave us be.. last thing, remember the "Prohibition" how did that work out for you? I say bye-bye to the raping tax man "Boston Tea Party"2011!"
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Welcome aboard
Supporters are hard to come by. Biggest I know of is CASAA
The link will get you to the documents page since that's what I've got bookmarked, but they have a lot of info set up for easy reference (actually none of this is easy to follow, but that's why everyone hates lawyers)
There are many ways to 'fight', although our biggest problem is gonna be size. There are MUCH bigger fish in the pond and no one but perhaps your local officials can even be bothered with something as trivial as the FDA picking on a bunch of psuedo/exsmokers. The true enemy in the end is the anti'smoker groups because they've almost won all their fights up to now even with enormous pushback from smokers backed by big tobacco. They are a passionate lot that just cant resist the urge to SAVE us from ourselves.
Currently focused on getting the Judge interested and we have managed to climb to the top of the suggestion list, there is some question if we need to also do the same on his Facebook and Twitter. not my strong suit. The Judge is a libertarian with no love of the FDA et al cabal which would love to carefully coddle (CONTROL) each of us from the moment of birth until death so we wont ever have to suffer the tiniest of sniffles or god forbid a cold. So if we get his interest he will certainly stick a finger in the FDA's eye on national TV. Apparently Rush Limbaugh is a vaper now so there are options there if someone would get his opinion on FDA bans.
Will have to double check the UK thing. May be 'decided', but dont think they've actually implemented it and there are a couple of different govt groups playing a bit of tug o war over the whole issue.
Basically the whole thing is a bit depressing depending on the outcome. Courts so far on our side, but FDA can appeal to death using our money to fight us. It's just as bad if they end up 'Approving' and regulating the hell out of the devices or the liquid. So nightmare coming and going with some stubborn jack#@$ somewhere determined to fight for nicotine prohibition because no one consulted them before we fell in love with our new toys.
Good news
They will never be able to actually ban the equipment, just like AU. As long as there is no nic *wink wink*, you are buying a harmless electronic device. Kinda like the shop down the street where you can buy all manner of pipes/etc for smoking tobacco *wink wink*
Nicotine is 'available' from a variety of sources although some mg/ml levels start reaching the level that hazmat gets involved. Also have to 'insure' they are pure sources with no contaminates not intended for human use. Ironic isnt it, if they make us 'safe' by banning the current liquids they will just push us to other supplies which may not be intended for human consumption. Like when they add gas to alcohol(ethanol) so you cant drink whats in your gas tank, but you can drive with it.
My current worst case scenario is to get one of the legal 'medical' devices from those wonderful places in CA and then find an organic no additive tobacco to vape. Seems a lot easier than homebrewed nic base, but not really that portable or fashionable. But I dont really see anyway they can completely block access to the nuts and bolts. They may just make the 'kits' harder to come by or with nic levels that make them useless without modding.
So here are your options.
Focus on finding your vape and enjoying your vape (crossing fingers)
Read everything you can on the forum fret worry etc forget how to vape and switch back to smoking analogs due to stress (We all slip)
Get knowledgeable about what's going on, then attack (well dont attack, because if you start screaming and chasing people around the office, you'll end up getting nowhere at best.)
Email your favorite shows/celebs/etc Facebook you name it
Real world gets tougher
Go to CASAA and get a packet for your elected officials and start going down the list. Senator,Congressman,Gov,..........
As soon as a local ban is planned, press these politicians hard. If we dont speak up, the anti's will get whatever they want (remember they have already proven they will fight till the bitter end and the politicians fear them. Only if we show up will they worry about making a real decision instead of just going along with the anti's) Make sure all your politicians know our side so at least they have to choose to oppose us, not just feel obligated to HELP the people who want to save us.
Remember we are a resourceful lot and although they might make it tougher, they will never be able to actually stop vaping.
That reminds me. I've been so focused on the Judge I forgot to bug my senators. This is gonna be fun. I just want the nice senator to make the FDA answer a few questions like, why they think smoking analogs is safer than vaping??????
Now just need a list of freedom of information requests to bombard them with. Hmmm. Well you get the idea. You've got two options. Educate yourself, your politicians, etc or just focus on living free and vaping away. Can't say which one will be more effective in the long run, but neither will hurt you and we'll always find a way to vape in the end.TY for the link, lot of information there.
I agree, thus far all them NONSMOKERS have won, and hopfully this time that does not take place, and I have never ever written a politician, but you know what.. things need to change.
Started the e-cig one week , and only 2 packs of analogs.. that never happened with any other quit smoking therapy , gum , or pill.
Again TY for the link, as I have a lot to learn, mostly been bans in AU, UK, a few other places, but perhaps there is hope, but I also hate to see the tax man get his nic money via the e juice sales, which is what this all comes down to.
So here's to vaping with the fingers crossed, and typing away to them political bums.
I agree, thus far all them NONSMOKERS have won, and hopfully this time that does not take place, and I have never ever written a politician, but you know what.. things need to change.
Started the e-cig one week , and only 2 packs of analogs.. that never happened with any other quit smoking therapy , gum , or pill.
Again TY for the link, as I have a lot to learn, mostly been bans in AU, UK, a few other places, but perhaps there is hope, but I also hate to see the tax man get his nic money via the e juice sales, which is what this all comes down to.
So here's to vaping with the fingers crossed, and typing away to them political bums.
Facebook link about FDA ban
If you have or are willing to make a facebook login, you can post comments on there as well. Hopefully the Judge will get in the mud with us and help expose these FDA goons for what they really are. Bureaucrats with nothing better to do than tell us how to live.
I too have rarely bothered with actively communicating with politicians, but at this point it's do or die. The anti's are pros at this stuff and only a concerted push back from us will stop them from sweeping us under the rug. Honestly cant believe the FDA has time for this when they do have bigger fish to fry. Anyone who can look me in the eye and recommend Chantix vs a PV cant really care about me, only about what they believe is best for me. Just sick and tired of the govt feeling obligated to save me from myself, so time to start bugging my good congressmen and women for a little help fighting off big brother.
If you have or are willing to make a facebook login, you can post comments on there as well. Hopefully the Judge will get in the mud with us and help expose these FDA goons for what they really are. Bureaucrats with nothing better to do than tell us how to live.
I too have rarely bothered with actively communicating with politicians, but at this point it's do or die. The anti's are pros at this stuff and only a concerted push back from us will stop them from sweeping us under the rug. Honestly cant believe the FDA has time for this when they do have bigger fish to fry. Anyone who can look me in the eye and recommend Chantix vs a PV cant really care about me, only about what they believe is best for me. Just sick and tired of the govt feeling obligated to save me from myself, so time to start bugging my good congressmen and women for a little help fighting off big brother.
Nice effort on the communities part, of course i voted and commented. This topic is ahead of even ohios constitutional amendment concerning health care... quite impressive. Now, anyone know how or when these top rated topics get selected or announced about?
Correct me if i'm wrong in my reasoning. The taxes collected by the fed on tobacco products is directly related to the fact they won in court on the grounds that smokers have greater health issues then non smokers and the taxation offsets this. If i'm not mistaken, patches, gums etc, do not have the same taxes levied due to the fact that nicotine in and of itself has not been proven to increase the feds cost to healthcare. Therefore, unless the fed begins taxing all nicotine products, they cannot single out ecigs for tobacco taxation because of the "constitutional right to equal justice". Therefore, it is unlikely the fed will be motivated to even regulate ecigs since they cannot tax it as tobacco and they already have a nice tax revenue from analogs without any new regs or work on their part.
Politicians are like water, they take the path of least resistance. They will side with whichever group has the loudest voice and in their mind will cost them the most votes at election time. With the elections right around the corner, NOW is the time for us to mobilize with a loud unified voice and get their attention. The politicians on both sides are scrambling as this is going to be a very tight election. Notice how most are flip flopping from former positions and trying to appeal to issues they either didn't give a crap about not that long ago... or they even fought against. Because these issues have aquired a loud voice lately, most of the hotly contested seats are running to support these groups issues.
We need to get the word out and imo we should be doing public rallies, sit ins, picketing, etc. The media are like starving vultures trying to fill their 24 hour news cycle. They will pounce on anything like that and will usually over dramatize the numbers etc for a more interesting story. We can use this to our advantage very easily to get the word out to the American public anbout ecigs and what's going on with the FDA's immoral actions. We can make the politicians who oppose ecigs seem to be weak, lazy and immoral as well.
The American public may be majoriy anti-smoking, BUT how many non smokers do you personally know that once they become informed as to what ecigs are and all the benefits over anaolgs end up opposing them? None that i know and that includes the morman side of my wifes family. Man, if i can convince non soda drinking, non coffee drinking tea tottling mormans to recommend ecigs to smokers, how hard can it be to convince the rest of Americans that ecigs are a panacea to the whole smoking addiction/ health problem ONCE they have been properly educated on the subject?
We need to educate the public fast and the best way to do that imo is through the media. The best way to do that is to give the media a story on a regular basis and through different peaceful avenues and not a once in a blue moon protest. I'm talking about multiple protests, petition drives etc. I know i for one would travel to picket the white house and congress. I might have to take the bus to conserve on expenses but i'm mad as hell and i don't want to let them get away with this bullcrap!!!
Correct me if i'm wrong in my reasoning. The taxes collected by the fed on tobacco products is directly related to the fact they won in court on the grounds that smokers have greater health issues then non smokers and the taxation offsets this. If i'm not mistaken, patches, gums etc, do not have the same taxes levied due to the fact that nicotine in and of itself has not been proven to increase the feds cost to healthcare. Therefore, unless the fed begins taxing all nicotine products, they cannot single out ecigs for tobacco taxation because of the "constitutional right to equal justice". Therefore, it is unlikely the fed will be motivated to even regulate ecigs since they cannot tax it as tobacco and they already have a nice tax revenue from analogs without any new regs or work on their part.
Politicians are like water, they take the path of least resistance. They will side with whichever group has the loudest voice and in their mind will cost them the most votes at election time. With the elections right around the corner, NOW is the time for us to mobilize with a loud unified voice and get their attention. The politicians on both sides are scrambling as this is going to be a very tight election. Notice how most are flip flopping from former positions and trying to appeal to issues they either didn't give a crap about not that long ago... or they even fought against. Because these issues have aquired a loud voice lately, most of the hotly contested seats are running to support these groups issues.
We need to get the word out and imo we should be doing public rallies, sit ins, picketing, etc. The media are like starving vultures trying to fill their 24 hour news cycle. They will pounce on anything like that and will usually over dramatize the numbers etc for a more interesting story. We can use this to our advantage very easily to get the word out to the American public anbout ecigs and what's going on with the FDA's immoral actions. We can make the politicians who oppose ecigs seem to be weak, lazy and immoral as well.
The American public may be majoriy anti-smoking, BUT how many non smokers do you personally know that once they become informed as to what ecigs are and all the benefits over anaolgs end up opposing them? None that i know and that includes the morman side of my wifes family. Man, if i can convince non soda drinking, non coffee drinking tea tottling mormans to recommend ecigs to smokers, how hard can it be to convince the rest of Americans that ecigs are a panacea to the whole smoking addiction/ health problem ONCE they have been properly educated on the subject?
We need to educate the public fast and the best way to do that imo is through the media. The best way to do that is to give the media a story on a regular basis and through different peaceful avenues and not a once in a blue moon protest. I'm talking about multiple protests, petition drives etc. I know i for one would travel to picket the white house and congress. I might have to take the bus to conserve on expenses but i'm mad as hell and i don't want to let them get away with this bullcrap!!!
Unknown at this time. Pushing effort of facebook as well, with less response but more discussion. Our biggest problem is that we are a very small fish in a very big pond, hell the FDA is going after cough syrup now on behalf of saving even more children so our best bet maybe to get a mention the next time they talk about the FDA. Probably wont get much media coverage until something happens in the courts one way or the other. Just not a very sexy topic considering all the other stupidity government is up to these days.
Oh now we are talking. I'll be sure to invite you to the vape-in at FDA headquarters when I decide to go do a FOIA request search through their archives. Although dont hold your breath or anything, I'm as lazy and broke as the next guy so trying local avenues first. Even a bus ticket would run me upwards of $400 round trip so would have to be something like the Beck rally in scope, planning, etc to really consider it. I love the thinking though. Best thing I've imagined along these lines is for some anti cop in Burbank to try to ticket a vaper for 'smoking' within 25 feet of something. Would love to see that blooper reel and news coverage of the court fight over vaping vs smoking. Although dont see vapers going outside to smoke since one of the fringe benefits is not having to go outside. But just goes to show you the fight we are up against. If the antis can basically outlaw smoking in an entire town, even on your own balcony, cant see them giving a rat's @$% about our problems with the FDA. They are driven by their hate and have willing political help. We are the common folk and dont understand why common sense doesnt prevail more often. Gotta love them politicians. Again, I see our biggest problem being their are a lot of other problems that need fixing. Hopefully we can all bug our congressman/senator enough to get them to give the FDA a swift kick in the pants, but we will have to be vigilant cause the FDA has all the time and money in the world to wait us out and stick it to us when we arent looking. One of my senator's office has a nice program to assist with governmental agencies, now I just need to figure out what to ask for in my FOIA. Copy of all emails concerning the botched report maybe? Copy of the senators who are pushing for ban? Copy of emails between the whole alphabet soup gang at AMA, AHA, etc etc? Really hard to know where the smoking gun might be hiding that would get the FDA to back off or the media interested in a juicy scandal. Hoping to at least bug the FDA a little. Like getting names of the management pushing this at the FDA so I know who to ask my senator to get fired. Like your passion, just keep it focused and dont run out of juice too quick. This fight will be long and slow and really really annoying. Of course that's the way the FDA wants it. They can always find a way around the courts, us, industry, but they do at least have to answer to congress on occasion.
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Most of us are your avg working stiffs so funding a trip with room and board can pose a significant obstacle to many here that would have to make sacrifices in other areas to make such a trip. Also considering that 1 protest is not going to have enough affect to garner the attention needed. What might be a better alternative is to sign up "potential" protesters, and see where the largest groups are centered. With that information a battle plan could be formed to have a multi-state protest day at the nearest appropriate government buildings in those areas. That might actually attract more media attention. Even though it would be smaller groups, it would be multi-state and hopefully one group would be located close to DC to protest there at the same time. Probably wouldn't take more than 10-20 protesters per group to get the national medias attention especially given the appearance of a mulit-state grass roots movement.
Would be even better if prior to the event the groups hosted some local petition drives so when the media showed up there would be a lot of petitions to display as well as big burlap bags filled with letters of testimonials from vapers accross the USA that couldn't make it to the event. Hehe, the burlap old school mailbags just for dramtic affect
Of course wording would have to carefully scripted or it might backfire and give the FDA amunition that vaping is a drug delivery or NRT device. As much as i hate "talking points" it would probably be necessary.
I voted! I sure do hope they don't ban the ecigs.
They are the ONLY thing that has helped me. I smoked
for 30 years. I feel so much better and I've only been
vaping 6 days! I can't wait for a month, and a year.
I can only imagine how much better I will feel.
They are the ONLY thing that has helped me. I smoked
for 30 years. I feel so much better and I've only been
vaping 6 days! I can't wait for a month, and a year.
I can only imagine how much better I will feel.
Most of us are your avg working stiffs so funding a trip with room and board can pose a significant obstacle to many here that would have to make sacrifices in other areas to make such a trip. Also considering that 1 protest is not going to have enough affect to garner the attention needed. What might be a better alternative is to sign up "potential" protesters, and see where the largest groups are centered. With that information a battle plan could be formed to have a multi-state protest day at the nearest appropriate government buildings in those areas. That might actually attract more media attention. Even though it would be smaller groups, it would be multi-state and hopefully one group would be located close to DC to protest there at the same time. Probably wouldn't take more than 10-20 protesters per group to get the national medias attention especially given the appearance of a mulit-state grass roots movement.
Would be even better if prior to the event the groups hosted some local petition drives so when the media showed up there would be a lot of petitions to display as well as big burlap bags filled with letters of testimonials from vapers accross the USA that couldn't make it to the event. Hehe, the burlap old school mailbags just for dramtic affect
Of course wording would have to carefully scripted or it might backfire and give the FDA amunition that vaping is a drug delivery or NRT device. As much as i hate "talking points" it would probably be necessary.
I love your idea and excellent warning. Shame that the average citizen has little chance to get attention in these matters, takes a professional dedicated group to pound and pound the carefully scripted message. Local coordinated responses to the next FDA action, might help, but fear we are just too small of a fish in the growing pond of governmental intrusion and stupidity. Hard for people to care about vapers when they have to keep swatting Uncle Sam's hand away from their wallets.
Our only real chance is to ride the wave against the 'nanny state' and hope to get some sympathy from small government types willing to push back against heavy handed bureaucrats. Finding the time and energy to fight the nameless faceless FDA goons gets harder and harder each day. Historically congressional pressure is the only slightly effective measure and those idiots are too busy running the country into the ground to listen to us little folk, much less to the even littler vaping community. May just be a matter of holding off the FDA until Obama gets walking papers. New heads of the FDA could help, but that doesnt stop the idiots already there from keeping the fight going.
Yeah, i know it's difficult with all the crisis level issues currently consuming most peoples attention. Hard to get peoples attention when they're worried if their family will lose their home or even have food on the table next week.
I wonder what the real numbers of vapers are in the US? Any trustworthy numbers or good guesstimates available?
I would think that beginning with small petition groups in the more vaping populated cities would serve not only to get a lot of signed petitions but also serve as a general awareness campaign. Would probably also bring new converts into the vaping community.
I wonder what the real numbers of vapers are in the US? Any trustworthy numbers or good guesstimates available?
I would think that beginning with small petition groups in the more vaping populated cities would serve not only to get a lot of signed petitions but also serve as a general awareness campaign. Would probably also bring new converts into the vaping community.
I went, I read, I commented, I voted. Also commented on FB. After 6 weeks of vaping, I feel so much better and it scares me to think that the FDA may cause me to start analogs again...OMG I hope not.
What is the reason that the UK banned vaping?
Has anyone heard vaping has been banned in Texas? A friend of mine mentioned that her Mom told her this and I would like to tell her if it is true or not. Thanks!
What is the reason that the UK banned vaping?
Has anyone heard vaping has been banned in Texas? A friend of mine mentioned that her Mom told her this and I would like to tell her if it is true or not. Thanks!
Voted 3 also. The FDA has become a sellout just like the American Cancer Society. Both are basically worthless as an entity now.
Nope, not true in Texas at all. The only thing being banned around these parts lately is K2 and that doesn't affect me at all.
Ecigs are not banned - yet - in the UK. The MHRA (govt pharma licensing agency, equivalent to the FDA in all respects) tried to impose a ban, but the government changed, and the bunch who were keen on reducing all forms of civil liberty were voted out and a new lot came in. The pharma agency appear to have been told to shelve their plans as the current govt is not so keen on regulation. However, no firm answer has been given either way, so it's the same old waiting game...
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