California Vapers - Newbie Needs Your Online Purchase Laws/Etc. Input

[Soniclight]

This is my second post (my first being the detailed and/or long winded "Confused Older Guy – Pall Mall Red Kings – Budget: Social Security/Disability Income" one) and am still spending a lot of time doing my research here on taking the plunge on my first starter kit, etc.

But then I had one of those (insert cartoon sound fx of screeching tires of coming to a full-stop) moments of...

"Whoah--before I go any further with any of this, certain states ban tabacco product online sales. California is one of them. Oh, crap, am I doomed to analogs from 7/11 from here to eternity?"

I'm aware enough of the state of flux of the overall legal issues of vaping vs. the tobacco industry and how this could have an impact on all of us. But right now, my concern is simple: As my first posting alludes to, my sole income is Federal (Social Security) and so while I'm a free spirit I'm both grateful for it and I also play by the rules.

In short, I don't want to do anything illegal, be it State law or Federal in terms of online purchasing of all of this.

The only close brick-&-mortar stores for me are essentially a bongs and paraphernalia places that also has some vaping stuff. But I'm not going to set foot in any of those for all I need is to somehow end up on some L.A.P.D. or D.E.A./A.T.F. surveillance video of such shops. (OK, fine, the boy is dipping into paranoia--but hey, why risk even the risk of being on one of those however innocent I may be).

Again: my entire income and livelihood depends on the U.S. government.
I cannot risk even the appearance of impropriety.

So online purchases will have to be it. I hope.
But is it legal for a California resident?

Thanks for your input.

 

[EMatic550]

hey brah, I'm from imperial beach, ca ...real down south in san Diego. They're a ton of smoke shops selling e cigs and I've used my ego at Starbucks by sdpd and they didn't say a word. They're legal in ca as far as I know. And welcome!

 

[LadyWeeps]

Hiya Sonic and welcome to the forums. I live in the Sacramento area and do all of my vaping purchases online. I've done it all year long and have had no issues or any knocks on the door. My phone does have an odd clicky sound now.......

 

[Soniclight]

Thanks for responses, but I'm really looking for specific sources/info that clearly states that buying e-cigs online in California is legal. As I understand it, it's illegal to buy any tobacco product online in California. Period. That one can get away with it isn't the issue - we all do small things that are technically illegal once in a while and some laws are simply dumb.

But I just can't risk screwing up on something that will be an ongoing thing for years.
Do e-cigs and specifically juices (the actual source of nicotine) fall in that category, yes or no?

I need the facts of the laws, not your or my personal interpretations of them.

____________

PS: I realize I'm coming off nuts-and-bolts and a bit serious here, but for me it is a serious issue because my disability is a form of chronic anxiety and what may be something of little or no consequence to some (legality or non-legality) can turn into full blown panic attacks. I can't be worrying about the act of purchasing e-cigs, I've got enough on my life-plate as it is.

Thank you for your understanding.

 

[spicyed]

Are There Any Restrictions on How E-Cigarettes Are Used or Sold? | PHLP

You will be hard pressed to really find anything on this. That link is the best I could find and it is not that informative. But really I believe you only lose SS benefits while you are in jail, and buying tobacco online can't a jail-able offense?

 

[OrthodoxAtheist]

I think you'll find there are many more e-cig vendor stores around you than you realize. Long Beach, L.A., Temecula, and other suppliers who don't have store fronts will often let you walk in if you let them know you're a local here.

I'm in CA... Redlands in the Inland Empire, next to San Bernardino. I've ordered A LOT of juice with no whiff of an issue. I've also visited J's shop in Long Beach. About 2 hours from me but its my mecca now.

I think what you may be referring to is the purchase of out-of-state cigarettes, which then avoid CA State sales tax. About 87 cents of tax is added for each pack of 20. E-juice is not subject to the same tax as cigarettes (yet). I've found NO legal prohibition to puchasing e-cigs and e-juice online.

I should mention this post does NOT constitute legal advice... since CA paralegals are prohibited from providing legal advice.

p.s. if you ever have any legal or benefit issues due to e-cigs (in CA), LET ME KNOW. I can prove useful. lolz

 

[Soniclight]

".... and buying tobacco online can't a jail-able offense?" Well, the Federal government would not look kindly on my being arrested even if with only a penalty, no-jail time. I can't afford ANY problems of legality however minor the infraction. And this is aside from what I just mentioned -- the effects of worry and such on my condition. I don't want or need to get into details here but trust me, it can get dangerous.

 

[spicyed]

Well in that case I suggest you contact a lawyer or government official for a clarification on the law as it applies to you.

 

[spicyed]

Oh additionally where did you hear that it was illegal to buy tobacco products online? AFAIK tobacco products online are only illegal because the online retailers allow you to circumvent taxes on them, since e-liquid is not taxed like them (not required to be stamped like cigarettes) this doesn't apply.

 

[keyzygirl]

Any Californians that know the law about this? Do we have a Cali group here?

 

[dotma]

Is e cig stuff even considered a tobacco product? There is no tobacco, only nicotine.

 

[Balthezar]

Check here, sonic, I know these people will know exactly what you are asking.

SF Bay Area

And I'll see what I can dig up in the meantime

 

[spicyed]

Is e cig stuff even considered a tobacco product? There is no tobacco, only nicotine.

FDA Regulation of e-Cigarettes
FDA did not appeal the decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit in Sottera, Inc. v. Food & Drug Administration, holding that e-cigarettes and other nicotine-containing products are not drugs or devices unless they are marketed for therapeutic purposes, but that other nicotine-containing products can be regulated as “tobacco products” under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. Therefore, FDA intends to develop regulations for electronic cigarettes.

Source: Electronic Cigarettes

 

[Balthezar]

Here are a couple of links that may help. (or may not )

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/law-e-cigarette/92877-so-e-cigs-banned-california-not.html

California Laws on Electronic Cigarettes | Electronic Cigarette Laws

Just getting started, I'll search more, but thought this might be a start for you.

Balth

 

[Wharf Rat]

Sonic my buddy Salemgold told me about your plight. Before I give you what I think, it sounds like you need some absolutes. I think the first and hopefully the last place you need to go is CASAA | The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-Free Alternatives Association. They are fighting for us all across the country. You can get a hold of them and I think they can give you a definitive answer.

In the mean time there are some great brick and mortars in your area ( I take it you're in socal). I was just at E-Cig City - Laguna Beach, CA and Jason and his wife are great. They have an amazing array of products and are very helpful.

That being said, batteries, mods, atomizers and cartomizers are NOT tobacco products. ONLY e-juice is a tobacco product.

I hope this helps.

 

[salemgold]

Thanks for your help Wharf!

 

[Balthezar]

Is the e-juice considered a tobacco product?

 

[Soniclight]

OK, got my nap, chilled out, untwisted my mental panties.
(No, I'm a dude and don't do panties. Just a figure of speech
So...

Thanks to all for your responses.
And in particular:

Balthezar,

I appreciate your diving in and putting all the effort into further research. I've bookmarked the contact page at CASAA and will be submitting my core question to them. If they don't know the specifics for California, I'm sure they know who does. This will probably settle the issue for me one way or another.

Spicyed,

As to the FDA link, I couldn't directly access some page due to that some of their pages don't accept cookies but I Googled a bit further and my overall sense is basically that this whole issue about is e-juice a tobacco product or not is still in flux -- and that it will eventually be regulated in one way or another.

We'll see what happens. But for now, I just want to keep my mental panties un-twisted in terms of online purchases

Wharf Rat,

Thanks for input here following my message to Salemgold. I checked online for Jason's shop in Laguna Beach and the store pics looks, well, fancy, and so I'm a bit concerned about potentially hefty prices (Laguna Beach ain't South Central or Brooklyn My only transportation is my motorcycle and so it would be a bit far for me (I live in the West San Fernando Valley, 91267) but then there is also UPS or USPS, etc. so something can be worked out.

There is also a small shop closer to me (Culver City) that was founded much like Jason's -- by an ex-smoker and not only that, her dad died of emphysema, so there is a sense of real purpose behind it. It's very new and from what I can tell, not a "pot paraphernalia" one either. I got the estimated costs list in my first posting here from her online site.

But as that first long-winded posting at EFC and its title points to that budget is a real concern and that's why I'd probably (but not absolutely) need to stick to online, no-overhead points of purchase as opposed to brick-and-mortar stores that have to pay rent, utilities, etc..

In short, I'm open to exploring local alternatives.
But I also need to get this "legal paranoia" out of the way first and foremost.

(BTW/OT: I was an actual "wharf rat" many years ago in Christiansted, St. Croix (U.S. Virgin Islands) when I was 21 - day crew/deck-hand and get-whatever-job-you-can while living/boat-sitting a replica of a 18th century schooner. Colorful characters and life. The owner of the schooner pulled a .45 gun on me for breaking one of his Corningware dishes on one of his more, uh, colorful days - lol)

__________________________

LATER EDIT/UPDATE:

Just sent an email/message to CASAA about all of this, including excerpts from this thread (but without mentioning names of members - just using my opening post and some of my replies). Hopefully they'll get back to me in the near future.

 

[Balthezar]

Sorry sonic, got sidetracked, but here is another link you might be interested in.

Are There Any Restrictions on How E-Cigarettes Are Used or Sold? | PHLP

 

[darkstorm]

Is the e-juice considered a tobacco product?

The FDA considers EJuice a tobacco product.