Calculating nicotine

[EonBlue]

Hey, ck. this out: Electric cigarettes in killer shock - doctors
Do they mean vaping? Funny how it doesn't list where the info came from.

I'm sure they have an agenda, nicotine gum.
If you look at my first link below you can see information about Srinakharinwirot University which is also in Bankok, doing stuff with gum. Both Srinakharinwirot and Mahidol universities are mentioned several times on my second link along with Polytechnic Institute and State University in good ol' USA. The real kicker is the sponser in the upper right hand corner, Pfizer who I think makes Nicorette.

(remove the space in http and www for both, 2nd takes a bit to load since it's from the google cache)

h ttp://w ww.ashthailand.or.th/en/news_en.php?act=detail&id=378

h ttp://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:R8nNpNLEYn8J:w ww.medassocthai.org/journal/index.php%3Fcommand%3Dtopic%26selvol%3D88%26selno%3D1+Mahidol+srinakharinwirot&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

 

[ApOsTle51]

11mg eliquid = 11mg PER 1000ml = 1.1% nic content
18mg eliquid = 18mg PER 1000ml = 1.8% nic content

atleast, this is how it was explained to me by the manufacturer ...

I thought i had it with this nic content thing and was quite happy with the figures Kate quotes , but this blows it all out of the water.

18mg per 1ml or 18mg per 1000ml.....slight difference there

 

[Kate]

I think that's a mistake Apo, it's mg per gram of liquid ... 18mg per 1000mg.

A gram is around 1ml so it works out at 18mg per 1ml.

 

[ApOsTle51]

ahh yes, that would make sense Kate.

Either that or Cash is feeling the Pinch and seriously watering down his juice

 

[dc2k08]

I'm sure they have an agenda, nicotine gum.
If you look at my first link below you can see information about Srinakharinwirot University which is also in Bankok, doing stuff with gum. Both Srinakharinwirot and Mahidol universities are mentioned several times on my second link along with Polytechnic Institute and State University in good ol' USA. The real kicker is the sponser in the upper right hand corner, Pfizer who I think makes Nicorette.

(remove the space in http and www for both, 2nd takes a bit to load since it's from the google cache)

h ttp://w ww.ashthailand.or.th/en/news_en.php?act=detail&id=378

h ttp://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:R8nNpNLEYn8J:w ww.medassocthai.org/journal/index.php%3Fcommand%3Dtopic%26selvol%3D88%26selno%3D1+Mahidol+srinakharinwirot&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

Thanks, this is a theory i have been researching for a while now. did you read any of my earlier posts on the matter, or is this based on your own research and we came to common conclusions ?

I was aware of the first link. I am not sure what the second link is. It has just loaded after about 2 minutes. It is a cached page for anyone interested. That is interesting that Pfizer sponsors the journal of the medical association of Thailand. Well spotted. first time i have was able to definitely make that connection.

could you explain the page ? is it the search results after you searched for "Srinakharinwirot Mahidol" Do you think that this confirms perhaps that the developers of thailand's own nicotine gum and the mahidol dental university faculty share a common interest ?

I mentioned this on a thai e-cig forum a while back. some of them seem to think the reporter was confused about electronic cigarettes being smokeless tobacco and mistranslated the research. I'm not so sure though.

For ease, here are the links:
first link:
PROF LAUNCHES NICOTINE GUM
second link:
Cached page (takes a long time to load)

 

[EonBlue]

I saw the first link on America's e-cig forum or something. Then I wanted to know more so I did some google searching and the second link came up. The Pfizer sponsorship is what made me think it was important enough to post. Then I searched Pfizer on here and felt really dumb since it had already been brought up and for going so far off topic.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

sorry guys ... meant 1000mg ... 18mg per 1 fluid ml

looks like i was already corrected 10 times though ... too slow to correct for my own good ... haha

 

[dc2k08]

not dumb at all. it's great to know that someone was following the same line. would love to get to the bottom of this. unfortunately Dr. Buajeap and the Nation are not responding to any email regarding the matter and the thai forum I contacted have not given me any leads so far. we have to "go rogue"

 

[TropicalBob]

I sometimes wondered how high a mountain of cigarette butts I created during 50 years of smoking 30 cigarettes a day. Horrible thought. We did terrible things to the environment as smokers.

I never could calculate that, but e-smoking is easier to figure out. I did that this morning and it provides a perspective Americans need. We just don't think in metric terms. We need pints, quarts, gallons, etc.

I've been e-smoking daily for a little over 11 months, averaging 1.5 to 2ml of liquid per day. So I converted my intake this morning to learn that I've put about one and a half pints of unknown, unregulated, untested Chinese liquid into my lungs.

I think license tags should be issued like they do with blood donors. Who will be first to a gallon?

 

[paladinx]

Untested etc. Weren't there studies done in Europe or something that showed that e-smoking was non toxic or something? I remember reading it in the forum not too long ago.

The FDA or pharm companies should be hoping on E-cigarettes. Why shouldn't they? They are trying to make money off of gums and lozenges and inhalers that are not even that appealing. Imagine the money they could make if they got into E-cigarettes? giving people a way to smoke a safer way? I mean If i were them i would be jumping on it right now doing all kinds of tests on it. That is like the ultimate way they could steal an even bigger share of big tobaccos market.

 

[Kate]

This is the only formal test report we have Paladin - http://healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport21-Oct-08.pdf

It only applies to Ruyan eliquid but it's encouraging as a start.

 

[paladinx]

I guess someone could always compare ingredients to ruyan, im sure its probably very similar. So after reading this report kate, Would you feel safe using ruyan cartridges? I mean many of the companies selling e-cigs are making pretty profound health claims. If someone gets really sick, or even dies from using one of these products, these sellers could get sued because they are making claims that the product is either much safer or safe in absolute terms as ruyan is doing.

 

[Kate]

I wouldn't say it's safe to vape, we don't know what the long term consequences will be. When cigarettes were first brought out people had no idea they could harm you and were actually encouraged to smoke ... then time told all and we know now years later. That might happen with esmoking too, I'd like to think not and short term health improvements are hard to deny but who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Anyone selling these things as healthier or safer is making unfounded claims, pure and simple. They are making money out of peoples fears of the harm of smoking without any scientific backup. A few years down the line we might start dropping like flies, they will be to blame for fooling us and we will be to blame for believing them.

I take my chances with vaping, I just feel better since I stopped smoking and really I don't think vaping could be much worse than smoking. We know smoking is a killer, vaping might not be.

 

[TropicalBob]

I was referring to batch testing.

Tests in New Zealand and by some suppliers on their liquids have been positive, for the most part. Those are one-off tests. One liquid. One test. Until there is oversight of the entire liquid production process, we are using the liquid on faith. Faith in Chinese producers? Some worry about that after purposeful contamination for greed in recent years.

Big Pharma doesn't care about this. They have their own products to sell, all of which cost them plenty to develop and market. All they might do is subtly ask that government force e-smoking through the same costly clinical trials their nicotine-replacement items went through. End of e-smoking if that happens. No trials? No nicotine products.

 

[paladinx]

That is true bob. Good point. Although I still believe their current products are only aimed at current smokers, while e-smoking could be a much bigger market. Even if it falls under NRT, the idea of smoking safely will probably appeal to a much bigger crowd. Lets face it, smoking is much more enjoyable then sucking on a piece of Nicorette. If I were a Pharm company, i would view it as a potentially profitable edition to my NRT line. Probably the most profitable.

 

[Frankie]

Well, there is still the one all-American producer. I am vaping tasty Chinese *something* at the moment, should I switch to JC? Is is substantially safer?

 

[dc2k08]

as an aside, i found it interesting when i discovered recently that electronic cigarettes are not the only product that Ruyan manufacture. They also make pharmaceutical and health care products and were making them before they started to develop electronic cigarettes.

what these are I'm not sure:

Pharmaceutical
Azithromycin Granules A01
Piglydetone PG01
Mei Nuo Ping M01

Healthcare
Chenlong Baoling Longevity Ginseng BL22

I guess it just showed me that they must have a working knowledge of the industry.

 

[Bellinghamster]

Here's an interesting find:

Natural American Spirit@Everything2.com

This claims that the American Spirits I used to smoke contained a much higher than average tar and nicotine by virtue of using whole leaf tobacco, rather than "sheet" tobacco and the odds and ends of tobacco processing...

[quote - though i deleted all the advertising copy]
Natural American Spirit Regular Filter Cigarettes
(Turquoise Pack)
Tar 18.6 mg Nicotine 1.92 mg
Natural American Spirit Medium Filter Cigarettes
(Light Green pack)
Tar 17.8 mg Nicotine 1.79 mg
Natural American Spirit Light Filter Cigarettes
(Yellow Pack)
Tar 13.3 mg Nicotine 1.40 mg
Natural American Spirit Perique Blend Filter Cigarettes
(Black Pack)
Tar 20.5 mg Nicotine 2.12 mg
[/END QUOTE]


This pretty substantially changes my nicotine requirement calculations. Can anyone corroborate these numbers?

 

[Bertrand]

They sound about right. Regular cigarette tobacco has a tobacco filler to bring down the numbers. They inject tobacco with CO2 which turns it into a kind of styrofoam looking thing. If you get a pack of super ultra lights you can see a lot of it.

American Spirit (and boutique brands like Nat Sherman) use a thicker filter and more porous cigarette papers to bring down their numbers while still only using proper tobacco leaves. (It's more expensive to make it this way.)