BMA e-cigarette briefing

Status
Not open for further replies.

rolygate

Vaping Master
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 24, 2009
8,354
12,402
ECF Towers
In March, the BMA issued an opinion piece on e-cigarettes. This is probably intended as guidance for doctors.

E-cigarettes in public places and work places - The British Medical Association

http://www.bma.org.uk/images/ecigarettespublicplacesmar2012_tcm41-212278.pdf

What is becoming increasingly obvious is how incompetent the department responsible for these proclamations is: following the invented statistics regarding the strength of cigarette smoke in cars, and the lies regarding the effectiveness of simply opening the windows, they have now issued an opinion that will directly result in loss of life if followed. It is hard not to rename the BMA Board of Science as the Board of Incompetent Fools and Liars.

The 'E-cigarettes in public places and work places' shortform intro states:

Electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes) are battery-powered products that often look like real cigarettes. Although they have been promoted as cigarette substitutes, they are not properly regulated and there has been little research into whether they are safe or effective as aids to stop smoking.

This joint briefing from the BMA Occupational Medicine Committee and the BMA Board of Science looks at the available evidence on e-cigarettes and their use in public places and work places.

It advises doctors not to recommend the use of e-cigarettes as aids to smoking cessation or as a lower risk option than continuing to smoke.

"Although they have been promoted as cigarette substitutes" and later "...not to recommend the use of e-cigarettes as aids to smoking cessation" are contradictory statements. E-cigarettes - rightly - are indeed 'cigarette substitutes'. This is called Harm Reduction. Harm Reduction has nothing to do with cessation.

"[We] advise doctors not to recommend the use of e-cigarettes ..... as a lower risk option than continuing to smoke." To not do so contradicts expert medical opinion at this time, since the experts are not fools. Even the MHRA is not stupid enough to go up against expert medical opinion here, and now allows the statement, "E-Cigarettes are less harmful than smoking", since that is what the experts say. The BMA therefore contradicts expert medical opinion and the MHRA.

".....they are not properly regulated....." - another clanger. They are regulated enough that there are no toxins or contaminants, and this would satisfy most consumers as to their safety. If the BMA is saying more regulation is needed, such as dosage for example, it will be interesting to see how they want to see this introduced for other consumer products of the same class such as sherry, pipe tobacco, coffee and so on.

".....there has been little research into whether they are safe or effective as aids to stop smoking." Not surprising really, as e-cigarettes are not intended, designed, made or sold for quitting - they are a replacement that is acknowledged as being safer and phenomenally popular.


The PDF
The summary says:

Summary
• E-cigarettes are not regulated as a tobacco product or as a medicine in the UK and there is no peer-
reviewed evidence that they are a safe and effective nicotine replacement therapy
• The use of e-cigarettes may undermine smoking prevention and cessation by reinforcing the
normalcy of cigarette use in public and workplaces
• Health professionals should not recommend the use of e-cigarettes as smoking cessation aid or a
lower risk option than continuing to smoke due to a lack of evidence of their safety and efficacy
"E-cigarettes are not regulated as a tobacco product or as a medicine in the UK and there is no peer-reviewed evidence that they are a safe and effective nicotine replacement therapy"

One cannot argue with this, as both statements are entirely true. They are also completely irrelevant. E-cigarettes are not an NRT. This is rather lucky as well, since NRTs have about a 98% failure rate. If the BMA is saying that the Trading Standards authorities are not doing their job, and are not inspecting and analysing ecig refills for toxins and contaminants, then say so.

If a government regulation and inspection agency is not doing their job - just say so, and stop all this childish innuendo. If, on the other hand, this BMA department is unaware that there is a government agency that regulates, inspects, tests, analyses, and passes or prohibits specific consumer products (and which pays special attention to ecig products due to the noise) - then perhaps they should get out of the proclamation business until they know their job.

"The use of e-cigarettes may undermine smoking prevention and cessation by reinforcing the normalcy of cigarette use in public and workplaces"

It is not clear how not smoking reinforces smoking. If electronic cigarettes do not have a significant effect on health, as is likely, then promoting their use is hardly detrimental to public health.

"Health professionals should not recommend the use of e-cigarettes as smoking cessation aid or a lower risk option than continuing to smoke due to a lack of evidence of their safety and efficacy"

True, e-cigarettes should not be recommended as a quit-smoking aid, since they are a permanent replacement. However they can be recommended as a lower risk option because that is what all the experts say, and because we know exactly what is in them.

Quotes from the experts

Unless some new and hitherto unknown disease vector is discovered, there is no known potential for harm in the materials. As far as evidence as to their safety goes, we could have 200 clinical trials over 30 years showing beyond doubt that their use is safe, but the financially conflicted will still find ways to deny the evidence exists (as is the case with Snus). As for efficacy, if effectiveness as a replacement for smoking is being discussed, it might help to consider the many millions worldwide who use them successfully and no longer smoke cigarettes; and the growth of ~50% per year in their use. One might consider them phenomenally successful for something that has 'questionable efficacy' as a smoking replacement.

If we are instead talking about efficacy for quitting, then indeed nobody knows - or cares.


BMA Board
Another fine proclamation by the BMA Board of Incompetent Fools and Liars. And yes, take me to court for libel on that one: not much chance of succeeding when this Board published ridiculous made-up statistics such as the famous "Cigarette smoke in cars is 23 times stronger than.....", which had to be rapidly retracted when it was found to have been made up by a Sunday Sport journalist on April Fool's Day, or similar; and the patently wrong "Doctors should not recommend e-cigarettes as a lower-risk option than continuing to smoke", when all the professors of medicine who have researched ecigs, the world's most renowned epidemiologists and experts in this field, several doctors' groups, and even the MHRA are saying exactly the opposite: e-cigarettes are a safer option than smoking.

It is difficult to decide whether these people are as stupid as they appear, or if there is some kind of financial motive. If doctors are getting advice from the financially conflicted here, it might be worth looking at the oath they take. A doctor who prescribes pharmaceutical interventions for smoking cessation may be assigning several times the risk to the patient compared to informally advising them to research e-cigarettes. Around a 95% failure rate with pharmacotherapy, versus an anecdotal 20% failure rate with e-cigarettes in a fully-mentored environment.

A risk of death for all the failed patients returning to smoking (which is almost all pharma-assisted patients) of somewhere probably around 33%. A very low risk of death for e-cigarette users, unless chocolate flavour is going to kill vapers by the thousand.

Probably, the most charitable statement that can be made about these doddering old fogeys is that they must take two or three decades to catch up with the facts. Hopefully, not too many doctors will take any notice of the misinformation the BMA publish. It is difficult to decide whether the sort of materials they have published here can be dismissed simply as institutionalised stupidity, or lies promoted by the financially-conflicted.

This BMA department is acting suspiciously like pharma shills - and pharma's agenda is to protect the status quo at all costs. The last thing pharma wants is less smokers, and especially significantly less smokers. The Swedish scenario is pharma's worst nightmare: 40% less smokers and therefore vastly less sick smokers needing the hugely profitable chemotherapy drugs, COPD drugs and cardiac drugs that make up so much of pharma's income. Sweden is pharma's worst nightmare and they will do anything to stop that situation spreading elsewhere.

Pharma needs smokers; and the more of them, and the sicker they are, the better for pharma (and their good friends and beneficiaries).

It's nice to see a doctor's association working so hard to keep sickness levels up. Perhaps we should ask why?
 
Last edited:

kwalka

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Jan 23, 2012
3,581
4,536
Clearwater, Florida
walkers-finest.com
I have thrown this out there several times and have not got a satisfactory answer yet. So, I'm putting it to the man here. Why do we not have some kind of panel or group put together to collect and consolidate info from our members, and any vaper that wants to take part? We could effectively on a grand scale, ask and answer all their questions regarding use as a cessation alternative, and efficacy, I believe, was the other word. Is the sheer size of the task insurmountable? Is the amount of data unmanageable?
Wouldn't it be nice to have our own case study or something like it to submit to the WHO by spring next year for the whole UK inquisition thing? The FDA or the NY Times could not ignore such a thing, could they?
I'm still a new guy here who cant believe that it was this easy to switch, after 15+ yrs of failed attempts. I truly believe that this is a great alternative. I am currently seeing 4 dr's, who all really like what they see. I use every chance I get to introduce this device to the general public, smokers and non alike.
I do have a couple articles with positive feedback bookmarked but I keep reading all these posts about all the negative and false press. So lets put together some seriously positive feedback?
 

rolygate

Vaping Master
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 24, 2009
8,354
12,402
ECF Towers
I have thrown this out there several times and have not got a satisfactory answer yet. So, I'm putting it to the man here. Why do we not have some kind of panel or group put together to collect and consolidate info from our members, and any vaper that wants to take part? We could effectively on a grand scale, ask and answer all their questions regarding use as a cessation alternative, and efficacy, I believe, was the other word. Is the sheer size of the task insurmountable? Is the amount of data unmanageable?

This area is immensely complex and seems to take a couple of years immersion in community advocacy / political engagement before the situation is appreciated. Put briefly, it is all about money, power, corruption, politics and tax. The health issues are irrelevant.

To explain: the pharma industry, tobacco industry, government regulatory staff, State revenues, national revenues, and pharma front groups all stand to be hit very hard by an increased popularity of e-cigarettes. The biggest loser with sufficient funds and channels to use them is pharma, and they are fighting a desperate rearguard action to ban ecigs, or restrict their attraction where bans cannot be bought.

Any fool can see that if the smoke causes 99% or more of the disease associated with smoking, and you remove the smoke, whatever is left cannot have more than 1% of the risk of smoking. This is not the issue. The problem is that if you introduce something that is widely acceptable to smokers, and many of them change over, then everyone who depends on smokers for their huge profits, tax revenues, and jobs, will not be your friend. Those people are also in power or very close indeed to those in power.

Look at the issues just for the pharma industry:
  • NRTs are a billion dollar a year global market.
  • That market will take at least a 50% hit when people realise that (a) NRTs have a 98% failure rate, and (b) they don't actually need to stop smoking anyway, they can change to a better alternative.
  • The drugs sold to treat sick smokers must be worth somewhere between ten times and a hundred times more than NRTs to pharma - a $10b to $100b annual market.
  • That market will eventually take a 50% hit or more when smokers stop dying. These drugs include the hugely profitable chemotherapy drugs, COPD drugs, cardiac drugs, vascular drugs, and other treatments for sick smokers.
This is what happened in Sweden and pharma will fight tooth and nail to stop the Sweden scenario spreading. (In Sweden, smoking was reduced by 40% by the unhindered availability and promotion of Snus. The smoking-related death rate fell in parallel. Sweden now has the lowest smoking mortality of any developed country by a wide margin.)

Wouldn't it be nice to have our own case study or something like it to submit to the WHO by spring next year for the whole UK inquisition thing? The FDA or the NY Times could not ignore such a thing, could they?

The FDA is owned by pharma and acts almost exclusively for them. Senior management have reported being told by the director that the pharma industry is their client, not the public; the scientists and technicians who work for the FDA write joint signed whistleblower letters to the papers exposing the corruption; the FDA attempt to obtain legislation that removes pharma's competitors. The NY Times does what any paper does, they report the news. It has no effect on people who have been bought and paid for or whose jobs depend on keeping the money machine rolling. Those people have the power, and the public's health, life or death have no importance to them whatsoever - unless/until it begins to affect votes. Only the money counts.

The W.H.O. tobacco department is widely regarded as the most prolific generator of junk science and ridiculous buffoonery in the scientific world. They are obviously owned by the financially conflicted and zealots who have no real interest in reducing the death rate. The dept. is a byword for lack of science and loony policies in public health that result in more people dying, not less.

I'm still a new guy here who cant believe that it was this easy to switch, after 15+ yrs of failed attempts. I truly believe that this is a great alternative. I am currently seeing 4 dr's, who all really like what they see. I use every chance I get to introduce this device to the general public, smokers and non alike.

I do have a couple articles with positive feedback bookmarked but I keep reading all these posts about all the negative and false press. So lets put together some seriously positive feedback?

Good intentions. However, perhaps as you can now see, you will first have to replace many senior government officials, State officials, health service staff, and health NGO staff whose jobs all depend on keeping the money machine rolling.

Good luck with that :)

Our best option is to gradually increase the pressure until there is an irresistible force. We need large numbers, in order to affect voting and to create a lot of noise in the media; and to have experts working for us behind the scenes.

Your community representatives are doing what they can, here. You would be well advised to join them and donate every penny you can afford, because they know about all these issues intimately, and are taking the best routes to work on the problem.
 
Last edited:

rolygate

Vaping Master
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 24, 2009
8,354
12,402
ECF Towers
The US association: CASAA - The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association

Extremely good at fighting city and State bans/restrictions. Good all-round advocacy. Covers all tobacco alternatives though strongest on ecigs. Very capable board members. No intention of covering consumer issues, but instead very strong on State-level advocacy. Current issues: huge geographical scale of State and local restrictions being proposed, and not enough volunteers.
Please donate to help them help you.
Ask if you can help in your area.

The UK association: ECCA UK - E-Cigarette Consumer Association of the UK

Small but capable group. Organised the World Vaping Day. Ecig specialists. Does well considering the tiny resources they have. Good website with stats used by the media worldwide. No inhibitions about describing the corruption that underpins almost all restrictions on e-cigarettes. Presently trying to facilitate an EU ecig association. Current issues: lack of any realistic resources of any kind, and the need for advocacy and publicity in Europe with a possible EU ban looming.
Please donate if you would like to help the community in the UK and EU.
 

tommy2bad

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 1, 2011
461
506
Kilkenny
• The use of e-cigarettes may undermine smoking prevention and cessation by reinforcing the
normalcy of cigarette use in public and workplaces
This is the one point we have no answer for.
Anytime I use my ecig in the company of non smokers ( and I mean never smoked non smokers) they aways bring the danger of example up. The thing is for anti smoking people it's the act of smoking that offends them. Health concerns may be their justification but at heart it the sight of smoking that they most object to.
We might claim rightly thats it's less harmful to the point of being a non concern but they can't get past the repulsion the feel at the appearance of people 'smoking' If it looks like smoking thats enough reason to ban it.

It is their stated objective to make smoking an anti social activity and by humiliation, legislation or whatever means necessary they intend to do this all the while congratulating themselves as 'saving lives', never thinking of the lives they condemn on the alter of their self righteous crusading.
They don't care about the health benefit of harm reduction as it undermines their ultimate goal. Total elimination.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread