Are there any 100W+ TC dual/triple 18650 that can safely USB charge?

[vapesmooth123]

The consensus seams to be none that can safely USB charge, at least what I found. But quotes directly from manufacturers state otherwise.

How about this, is there a 100-150W (150ish for TFV8 octa coil) TC MOD that has one big internal battery with as much mAhs as triple 18650s (or close to) and can safely be USB charged? And the battery is replaceable with some tinkering? 4400 mAh is the largest I found so far in the smok XPro M80 Plus or MVP3 Pro has 4500mah. FWIW, I'm a noob at sub ohms and high wattage. If I do get a triple 18650 mod, I would go for batteries sort of in between large mAh capacity and ability to do very low ohms, in other words, I don't think I'll have it all maxed out with like 9,000 mAh from 3 3,000 mAh batteries, but also not something low-mAh for realyl low ohm builds).
And, how much bigger does a MOD actually have to be to include a built-in safe charger? Probably not much, but maybe it's just not possible. I would rather the third battery be replaced with a circuit to safely USB charge 2 18650s.


Eleaf iStick TC200W
iStick TC200W - iSmoka/Eleaf electronic cigarette
"Charging: The recommended way is to charge the 18650 cells externally as it will take less time to give them a full charge. The cells can also be charged in the iStick TC200W through the side USB port via 1A wall adapter or computer."



Wismec Reuleaux DNA200 (not the cheaper RX200)
Reuleaux DNA200 - Wismec Electronics Co.,Ltd
"Charging: You can take out the lithium-batteries from the device and then charge the cells.
Moreover, it can also be charged via USB cable"


Wismec Reuleaux RX200 (not the more expensive DNA200)
"Charging: It is BETTER to take out the lithium-batteries from the device and then charge the cells.
Moreover, it can also be charged via USB cable."

The RX200 says it is "better" to remove the batteries, but can also USB charge. The DNA200 doesn't say anthing about external charging being "better" than USB. I am told this is because the DNA chip is capable of Balanced charging but the RX chip isn't. However, if that's true, I read that using TC with SS on the DNA200 chip, requires obnoxious jumping through hoops in software. But with the newer RX200 chip, you get TC SS right out of the box. The most I want to get involved with in software is updating the firmware if need be. FWIW, I have no idea about TC or SS or nickle etc but I just want to be future-proof, but will probably end up soon getting SS coils once I get past the initial learning curve (I vape a very basic single coil 2ohm at 10W on a 2-year-old DNA 30 Hana [which I charge USB since day one, using the same batteries for about two years], but I want higher watts).




This link says the Eleaf Istick 200W uses the same chip as the Reuleaux RX200 (and thus possibly shouldn't charge the Istick with USB).
Eleaf iStick 200W Review - Vaping360
"...Both mods use the same chip with the same menu options...."


If there simply is no regulated 100-200W TC dual 18650 MOD (preferably triple 18650 and 150W) that can safely USB charge, then I'll get a dedicated charger (or a singel interal battery 150W TC MOD). I know that TC and arguable other features of the DNA might be better than the RX but I'm not sure if that's worth the hassle of learning the software which is said to be complicated. However, maybe a firmware update already fixed this TC SS issue with the DNA200? That's what I read actually. If so, and if the DNA is indeed safer to charge with USB, then I'll probably spend the extra $100 for the DNA200.

Whatever I choose, I would like the possibilty to USB charge in rare cases which might might not be too much of a concern if done only once a month or two even with the RX or Istick (possibly RX chip, not DNA).



Side note, I don't like the button position or the shape of the Istick vs the Reuleaux (at least just by looking at them) but I much prefer the Istick bottom battery door and there seems to be less chance of juice entering the casing vs the Reuleaux RX200 / DNA200 which are said to have gaps all over and a wobbly magnetic battery door (RX wobbles, not DNA I heard). But if the Istick can charge USB safer, I might get that.


http://..................com/thread...ells-mod-from-eleaf-vs-rx200-thoughts.225587/

"9- Batteries setup in series with two extra connectors to seemingly provide individual cell monitoring and charging, they state:

"The cells can also be charged in the iStick TC200W through the side USB port via 1A wall adapter or computer"

Did they actually implemented a fully functional 1A balance charger?"






In this fasttech thread, they're saying some if not most dedicated external chargers actually do NOT balance charge and that the RX200 and DNA200 WILL balance charge and that it's good (but takes a long time).
Balance charging on RX200 and DNA version: FastTech Forums
"(My email to Wismec yestreday)
Hello,
You have the micro usb "firmware upgrade" and "charge port" on both 200w mods.
Your website says "charge port" via usb.
Is this "balance charging" on both devices or either one?
I cant seem to find this information anywhere.
Can you advise ?
Thank you

(This was their reply)
Dear friend,
There is "balance charging" on both devices.
Have a nice day. "






But I've read countelss claims of people charging with USB and saying they're getting different voltage readings from each battery after charged or not fully charging. Possibly not left to charge long enough though nor using married batteries. I read in the following links something possibly about the balancing being done at the end of the charging cycle and taking a long time.
Balance charging not working? - Evolv DNA Forum
How can you tell it's balancing the cells? - Evolv DNA Forum

Another fasttech thread
the dangers of charging with the usb cable: FastTech Forums



Also
Reuleaux RX200's new competition? Kangside 3x18650 200W TC with Yihi SX340 chipset • /r/electronic_cigarette
"not this again.... have you seen mooch315's opinion on this?

Not that he is the ultimate guru or anything, but he knows battery safety better than most.

"I would recommend taking the batteries out once in a while for external charging to rebalance them and give you the longest vaping time with those batteries"

Hardly says "NO DONNNT DOO IT""

"I use the DNA200 version charging, quite a lot (as well as an external when at home) and my batteries have never been unbalanced ever. So anecdotal points all around."

"It's capable of charging via the USB, but just barely, but you're much more likely to fry the batteries or the board inside the mod because it just isn't capable of balance charging properly.

Seriously, it's not worth it. I have a list of reddit posts where people have fried their mods from using that damn USB port to charge. Even the manufacturer recommends you use an external charger, and for good reason."


Kangside 3x18650 Yihi Sx345 chipset 230w B230-Vaporizers, Electronic Cigarettes - Kangside,KSD
Here's ^ the Kangside KSD copy of Reuleaux RX200. Real smart having all the wires etc so easily exposed in the battery compartment in case an atty leaks into there or something. All MODS IMHO should all have a .5 cent water/dust proof gasket.
Anyway: "Warm Tips, the USB is for upgrading, not charging".

Well, sorry for basically throwing up all over the forum recently with these long posts asking for quite a bit. My gut tells me to just get the RX200s for now(same as RX200 except different screen view, "improved 510", shows battery as a % vs the bar, and hopefully fixed the battery door wobble the RX has but not the DNA), get a dedicated charger and marry 3 new quality batteries, and if I really really have to charge it USB once every month or two, it shouldn't cause a problem.

 

[Mountain Dude]

You may be overthinking this a little. lol

Yeah, just get a decent charger like this, they're like $15-30. Charges much faster, much better and that one tells you what is happening all the time.

 

[SteveS45]

If you are using a DNA you can monitor charging using the eScribe software. I charge many MOD's using a USB cable for convenience and I am not bringing an external charger on vacation.

 

[vapesmooth123]

i posted on another forum and they said the same exact thing, that the DNA200 will balance charge just fine but the RX won't but how does that explain the email where Wismec says both will. I guess DNA is just better at it. Maybe if like I said, I only do it every once and while, it won't really matter with the RX.

"(My email to Wismec yestreday)
Hello,
You have the micro usb "firmware upgrade" and "charge port" on both 200w mods.
Your website says "charge port" via usb.
Is this "balance charging" on both devices or either one?
I cant seem to find this information anywhere.
Can you advise ?
Thank you

(This was their reply)
Dear friend,
There is "balance charging" on both devices.
Have a nice day. "


Reuleaux RX2/3 looks nice too because of the double 18650 option in case I find triple too heavy and overkill this omits me finding a separate MOD for dual 18650 I was going to find myself (no ridiculous forum threads needed). But I'm kinda in a rush, and RX2/3 is about $25 more than RX200S at the moment ($64 vs $40 from what I checked).


One other thing, I know the RX200S has the battery life as a % sign but the RX200 has it as a bar, but not sure about the DNA200 with the latest firmware. From videos of the new Reuleaux RX2/3, it shows it as a bar but might be able to change with firmware. I prefer %.

I'm still leaning towards RX vs DNA. Another thing I don't like about the DNA is the battery compartment, in order to prevent you from putting the batteries in backwards (which I never would), the DNA has a physical bump out but the RX safety is built into the chip. I heard the DNA's physical bump out has the tendency to rip at the battery wrap and tare them up.

Actually as I write this out, I think I'm set on the RX for now, and then I can always sell it later when these get better. I think 6 months or so, there will be a new version that fixes small problems (gaps hopefully which the RX2/3 has plenty of) and maybe just maybe the RX will be able to actually USB balance charge as well as the DNA if there even is a difference. What I'll do is decide if the $25 is worth it for the RX2/3 or just get a $40 RX200. And then sell it in 6 months or so if something better comes out. The only thing about that though is if regulations destroy the market and everything becomes much more expensive and harder to get in the US.

 

[SteveS45]

I own both a DNA200 and an RX200S device and have not had a problem charging Via the UBS port. I notice most who say that it is unsafe or whatever do not own them.

You can change the Battery meter from % to a picture on the RX200S. I would have to pull out my DNA to see if it does it but I think it does.

 

[Topweasel]

The RX and most mods including higher end mods us SX chips don't do balanced charging and balanced discharging. They have protections against it. The one chip that does is the DNA200.

It was developed from the beginning to use with unremovable 3c lipos and I have witnessed it's insanely balanced charging and discharging on my Triade. Even test against a charger and not using escribe.

Now that isn't saying that it's impossible to find a decent mod that isn't DNA that will do it. But I find it hard to believe for example you would get it from a device like the RX when they release a device like the RX2/3. Why would they care enough for balanced charging if they are actively suggesting unmarrying device on the fly.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[SteveS45]

Where does it say to divorce your batteries? A set of 2 married and a set of 3 married is how you should do it when practice proper battery usage. Open marriage for batteries?

 

[Topweasel]

Well I guess when you put it that way. Terrible for me though. I like to always have two sets. That would basically require me to have 10 batteries dedicated to one mod.

It's not a well thought out idea personally or you have just the two configurations it means that you are using it one battery down when it is recharging.

Since Daniel is the only reviewer I know of that covers charging. Just looking at three Joytech/Wismec/Kanger reviews that he did (including the cuboid that shares the same chip development as the RX) only two of those three did balanced charging. All three stopped charging well below 4.2 and chances are the Kanger that seemed to do balanced charging had more to do with it discharging equally. None of them seemed to do very intelligent charging. Again in comparison to a chip I can have full confidence in, outside anecdotal evidence I would have no confidence in the RX/RX200S/RX(2/3) to have true balanced charging.

Edit: Just checked his review of the RX since i didn't see that earlier. He tries to give it credit for balanced charging but it was 4.12 4.12 4.08. So unless they stepped it up on the 200S and the 2/3, Its not a full charge and very questionable balanced charging. Certainly not a very intelligent charging. Otherwise it would go to 4.2

 

[SteveS45]

There was a FB post when the RX200 2/3 was released asking what we thought about it. I asked why would they take a 3 cell MOD and turn it into a 2 cell MOD? May be able to do the same maximum wattage but can't last as long as a 3 cell RX. People said they would like it because it fits in there hand or whatever. Want a small MOD get a Pico! I like my RX200S and going on vacation in a couple of weeks and I am NOT bringing my battery charger!

 

[vapesmooth123]

Well I've decided possibly not to get the triple 18650 mod. If I get the DNA200, I don't have to spend on a separate charger but it might end up being too big of a MOD. Even if they make the RX200 2/3 as a DNA that can USB charge I am told the 2/3 version means you should marry 3 batts for triple and 2 others for dual = lotsa batteries and confusion. I was planning to just buy 3 and mark them and rotate when in dual or triple mode but that might not be smart.

I think what I need is a dual 18650 DNA 100-150W TC so I can safely USB charge and not even need a separate charger (saves me about $40). And since it can passthrough while vaping, just having dual 18650 should be enough

 

[vapesmooth123]

welp, I decided to go with a Wismec Reuleaux DNA200, at least for now..
DNA's ability to more safely USB charge vs the rx200 (and possibly other 150-200W chips) was the deal breaker for me.
Don't get me wrong, I have a cheap (but very bright) dual 18650 headlamp that has sketchy built-in charging and I took the advice of others and charge them in a nitecore in the garage without worries or hassle, but with the e cig, I'm just so accustomed to USB charging. I'll charge it overnight right next to my bed, like I have been charging my single 18650 MOD and eGos for years. Worst case scenario is it explodes, and then I will wake up and bash a hole through the wall into the bathroom and put the fire out with the shower wand.

I say I'm getting the DNA200 just for now because I will probably sell it in 6months to a year because I can almost guarantee that Wismec (and probably other companies) will soon follow in the footsteps of the Reuleaux RX2/3 with a DNA200 in a casing that you can chose 3 or 2 18650s. And possibly also with faster 2amp USB charging such as the VaporShark DNA200 and SBody Nuke DNA200 (although those use a single lipo pack battery which is possibly the key to 2Amp safe charging).
Basically I think that in a year or so, the safety concern with USB charging multiple cells will be history, even if it makes the cheaper RX200 MODS $10 more, the RX200 mods are dirt cheap as it is so it's not a big trade off. And with 2Amp charging possibility, there's almost no reason to even mess with an external charger that I know of, except to not wear out the USB port when needed for actual firmware or configuring.

Only concern of mine is if I should have to open the Reuleaux DNA200 and rotate the batteries for added safety.

Actually, now I googled that and found this that I'm thinking says I should. If you Ctrl + f to "find" [series], you'll see what they say.
PSA for Wismec Reuleaux RX200 owners • /r/electronic_cigarette


that thread ^ is for the RX200 not DNA200 but I googled and confirmed that both are Series MODs and not parallel (whatever that means lol). But it's concerning enough to me that I have changed my mind yet again and my final answer is that I will get the cheaper RX200 (possibly the 2/3 model) AND charge externally (next to my bed lol). BECAUSE, I don't want to have to open the damn Reuleaux DNA200 every day or so and rotate the batteries because the damn thing has protruding plastic rings around the battery connectors as a safety feature to prevent users from putting the batteries in at reverse polarity - these protruding plastic rings are notorious for ripping at battery wraps and potentially damaging them. Google [Reuleaux dna200 "file down" ] and you'll see others have done this but I really don't want to get into all that or try and resell this thing later with that modification it would look sketch as F.


I like the battery doors for the Reuleaux RX200 2/3 they now snap into place, still have some magnets I think but I like the security of snap (don't like the giant gap where juice can enter though).

well, if anyone's read this far, all I need to know now is what three batteries do you recommend? Link em and I'll buy em on ebay. I will be vaping single and dual coil build but I really have no idea what ohms. I will do SS and other non-kanthal builds but also kanthal claptons etc, fancy stuff. I have a TFV8 on the way and it has pre-built .15 octa coils, so that's probably as low as I'll need to go, I don't know. Basically I know this has been asked a million times but I want something in the middle ground of what can do low ohm coils but also has decent mAhs.

For the charger, I already have a nitecore i2 for my headlamp, I have two very high quality keeppower 2900 batts that were $25 a pair. After about 9 months, the nitecore only blinks that one is fully charged even if left for two days. But if I change the battery to the other slot it will fully charge, so I'm not so happy with nitecore.

I have the car adapter for the nitecore though so that might be useful unless you suggest another charger that has a genuine OEM car adapter?

 

[Topweasel]

Two things. One with the DNA you won't need to rotate. The rx200 you need to because one battery is always undercharged. The DNA version shouldn't have that issue.

Personally though with so little price difference I would get the Triade instead. Better wiring, better 510 connector, better 510 placement. It also looks nicer and the leather makes it feel more comfortable.

Either way go to the Triade thread. There is a video that has been posted a couple times. It should apply to all the RX's including the DNA as well as the obviously the Triade since they all use the same reverse protection. I have now removed and reinstalled the batteries in one of my Triades 3-4 times without a single tear. There was was one time the wrapping got an indentation the first time on one battery but no damage.

 

[KenD]

Two things. One with the DNA you won't need to rotate. The rx200 you need to because one battery is always undercharged. The DNA version shouldn't have that issue.

Personally though with so little price difference I would get the Triade instead. Better wiring, better 510 connector, better 510 placement. It also looks nicer and the leather makes it feel more comfortable.

Either way go to the Triade thread. There is a video that has been posted a couple times. It should apply to all the RX's including the DNA as well as the obviously the Triade since they all use the same reverse protection. I have now removed and reinstalled the batteries in one of my Triades 3-4 times without a single tear. There was was one time the wrapping got an indentation the first time on one battery but no damage.

I have four rx200 and the batteries on all of them discharge evenly, no need to rotate the batteries (should mean that charging in the rx is ok as well, but I use external chargers). The battery meter on the rx (and other Joyetech/Wismec/Eleaf mods) is terribly inaccurate though.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[Topweasel]

I have four rx200 and the batteries on all of them discharge evenly, no need to rotate the batteries (should mean that charging in the rx is ok as well, but I use external chargers). The battery meter on the rx (and other Joyetech/Wismec/Eleaf mods) is terribly inaccurate though.

It only without independent charging of the cells it only takes a slight difference to create a larger and larger rift each cycle. That one cell that was more discharged becomes the cell that becomes less charged which in all probability makes it the cell most likely to over discharged and so on. It's why they recommend cycling batteries in the RX so if that is happening it levels out every third cycle.

 

[vapesmooth123]

I know about the Tirade, and there's another similar ~$125 one but they both have leather and I'm actually a vegan and don't buy leather. I have read about 510 problems with all the RX200s, even after supposedly fixing it on the RX200S and the new R2/3. BUT, it's rare and only with certain attys. But warranties possibly aren't covering it if it does pop inward or something. I'm just going to take a chance. I only have a handful of attys I can get a $3 heatsink if needed also. I also know about the thin wiring in the RX. This is sort of a temp MOD for me though, and then I'll sell it. I think they have to work out some kinks in all these, even if that means raising the price %30, they're still cheap. I'd buy the DNA200 right now if it weren't for those stupid protruding rings around the battery connections that rip at the battery casings. Even though I can safely USB charge the DNA version, like I mentioned, I'm under the impression that I will still have to rotate the batteries daily = potential to rip the casings in the DNA (but not the RX but the RX shouldn't really be USB charged).

One thing, do you think it would be detrimental if I were to use just 3 batteries for the RX 2/3, and rotate them for dual and triple mode or will that un-marry them too much? I will be charging in a nitecore etc externally %99 of the time and always rotating them. If I want dual mode with the R2/3, I'm thinking I'll just remove one battery but then swap it with one of the other two if I continue in dual mode and rotate it like that. If not a good idea, I might just get the RX200S for now. I see myself selling it in 4 months or so for something potentially better. I just hope regulations don't hit by then and make buying a new version difficult or expensive.



One thing is that topweasel says I don't have to even rotate the batteries in the DNA if I get the DNA200 and charge with USB instead of an external charger which I would prefer over any RX.

Despite this I linked saying it's a series mod which I am under the impression requires some rotation. This thread fi for RX but the DNA is series also (but supposedly balances charging, I have no idea at this point).
PSA for Wismec Reuleaux RX200 owners • /r/electronic_cigarette



I am waiting for an account to be approved at the Evolv forum to ask them also and to ask:
I don't want to bother with escribe, so if I get the DNA200 and just update the firmware, can I do TC Stainless steel coils or does the DNA still require escribe tweaking which I heard is complex.

 

[vapesmooth123]

I made a thread at evolve just for good measure asking if the DNA200 requires rotating the batts if usb charging it.
Wismec Reuleaux DNA200 onboard USB charging safe? Still should Rotate batteries? - Evolv DNA Forum


I however in the meantime of waiting for that account to be approved by moderator mostly decided to just get a $40 RX200S for now with a $25ish external charger and hopefully never need to USB charge it, and then I will sell it and the charger sooner or later because I imagine, DNA will release a MOD that A) doesn't have the stupid screen ribbon wire directly in contact when you press fire (I know it can be fixed but also folding the ribbon is a bit concerning B) will have removed the stupid protruding rings around the batteries and instead use how the RXs have that protection built into the chip, and they will probably make a RX2/3 version in DNA that you can opt between 2 or three batteries (and I asked before but No, I wouldn't risk rotating between just 3 batteries to do this if doing a few days as dual and a few days as triple, I would just spend the $20 more for a dedicated pair of 18650s for in dual mode).
And if the DNA200 does require rotation if USB charging, then I imagine soon enough they might fix that also but that might be wishful thinking and too advanced for the near future.

 

[Topweasel]

Keep in mind that there are very few Joytech DNA products. The DNA RX was designed as a stand-in while Joytech was developing the board that is now used in everything.

The RX was a breakthrough in development for them and required a new chip from the ground up. Danger is doing the K1 because well they are releasing every opportunity to announce every idea they have had. The K1 gives them a chance to push margins up.

I wouldn't count on them releasing another DNA RX specially since they have till Monday to announce it.

Sorry to hear about your veganism stopping you from picking up the Triade. I commend you for sticking with your guns on that. Just its the perfect mod for just about all of the rest of you requirements.

 

[vapesmooth123]

holy shjt, regulations on Monday. I don't even know really what it's about, I read some asinine stuff though like to build a coil for you, a shop needs a million dollar license,

to release a firmware update = million dollar+ license,

a flavor at 0mg , 3mg, with added addition second flavor (at 0mg, 3mg, 6mg, 18mg etc etc, EVERY SINGLE VARIATION needs a million dollar+ license = basically they are just taking all the money for themselves, a big monopoly. They also probably actually WANT you to get sick, They will possibly promote SHADY JUICE with unnecessary shady additives so big pharma can get even richer on meds and sick people.

stuff like that. Not to mention all these fkin FDA passes might require animal testing. Dogs and mice and rabbits and monkeys etc all tortured to death for what we already know - No one ever said vaping was safe. We think it's safer than smoking (which you can't actually say anymore).

Luckily I froze 2 litres of 100mg a couple weeks ago and know DIY.

And joytech and kanger etc a required to sell. I was thinking this had nothing to do with them (assuming they're no US based). I don't know. We'll see I guess. My impression is that most of the rest of the world will be getting all these great mods available to them while us in the US CAN'T BUY them. We can only buy whoever or whatever can afford the asinine fees to obtain a new product which is likely some gov agency. They will probably pull some slick shjt like tanks you can't build on and must buy their coils that are sealed shut.

If this regulations is indeed just for the US (read soe other countries also but maybe not nearly as harsh), then what's stopping you from driving into mexico or cananda or going on vacation to another country and brining a mod back you bought from a shop? I mean how is the airport supposed to know "oh this looks like the upgraded DNA200 that was released after august 8th!".

As for the DNA/RX 200, I don't even know at this point. Might just enneie meenie minie moe. Gut tells me get DNA since I might be having to stick with it longer than I originally expected. It's more reliable and better circuitry. Actually, yes the leather Triade one is even better internally but that's a no go for me.
Stuff made pre 2007 is grandfathered in though and doesn't require any quintillion dollar fee, lol, gee thanks!

 

[vapesmooth123]

http://..................com/thread...iple-18650-that-can-safely-usb-charge.262107/