Anyone know of/tried something like this? (capacitor drive)

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UncleChuck

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I'm not planning on building a device like this but was curious what the electronics experts would have to say about it's feasibility.

The basic idea is to use cells with a much higher capacity (there are 18650s rated at 6,000+ mAh) while still allowing high-powered vaping. These cells aren't capable of delivering the current required for high power levels, but considering most vaping takes place 2-5 seconds at a time it seems like using a capacitor to drive the coil would allow you to maintain high power levels without pulling much current from the battery.

Seem like a reasonable idea? There is the obvious issue of charge-up time, and total watt hours available in the capacitor, but even roughly figuring out those details is beyond my knowledge. Then there is the issue of regulating the capacitor's output, which I suspect would be more difficult than regulating relatively consistent battery voltage.

The end-product would, roughly and in theory, be a device that lasts 3-4 times longer between charges, with the trade-off being a bit more bulk and having to wait 10 or so seconds between vapes.

Any feedback is welcome! As I said I have no plans to make anything but thought it was a pretty good idea assuming the technical details are workable. Do compact capacitors capable of ~15 amps at ~4v with a ~10 second charge time even exist (and at a reasonable price?) Is it possible to regulate capacitor voltage accurately enough for our purposes? I'm thinking the easiest would be for the device to have a fixed output voltage of 4 volts so that it would match a freshly-charged mech in performance, but again with a much longer run-time.
 

Alexander Mundy

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With no loss (a perfect capacitor which does not exist) Amps X time (seconds) / voltage drop (from high to low) = capacitance (F)

Given a perfect capacitor with no internal resistance and 5A load going from 4 V to 3.8 V over 5 seconds would require 5 X 5 / .2 = 125F. Course charge time at 1 A would be 5 times 5 seconds so 25 seconds. Given say a 4 milliohm ESR capacitor and include mod voltave drop add a couple percent so not much to worry about there.

Given the math, possible but extra bulk and expense make feasibility limited.
 

AttyPops

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This looks doable using super capacitors, but to get a proper sub-ohm 10+ second draw and maintain voltage within 5% would take a couple thousand dollars worth of super caps and a very big box.

I asked a question similar to the OP years ago...but was using A/C mains power (rectified to DC, of course) and/or charging from a DC "ashtray" charger you'd touch the capacitor-based e-cig to.

Anyway, we calculated that it would be about 10 pounds of capacitors. lol.
They razzed me like crazy, had some pics of PV muscle-building weights. :lol: (Like an arm hold a hand-weight building muscles).
IDK if that was with super-caps or not. But lol anyway.

So, basically, you can have fast response, like with capacitors, or you can have electron density, but both is a holy-grail right now.
 

cadcoke5

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I have seen that some programmable mods have power curve control. This is used to put out a higher amperage for the 1st second or so, to heat the coil up, and then power is deliberately reduced for the rest of the time. Perhaps a smaller capacitor could be useful for that initial surge, to bring the coil up to temperature.
 

AttyPops

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Maybe more size feasible than .....



Yeah, e-cig probably more feasible than that.

What that guy is probably gong to find out is that capacitors "leak"...they discharge over time. So if he let that car sit for 3 days he may be disappointed. Now, that depends on the capacitors too of course. Some hold a charge longer than others.

Best guess.

That's why he's also discussing a Li-Ion battery or solar charge backup, I'm guessing.

EDIT: Watched the rest. Yeah, they leak more over time, he tested it. I was impressed with how long it did last though. I don't think you can let it set for, say, a week or more...
 
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UncleChuck

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Thanks for the feedback guys! Sorry for abandoning my thread, it got moved and I never venture outside of a few sections these days so I forgot all about it. Looks like my fears about price and bulk were well founded, maybe one day soon we'll see something with the specs required for such a job. But then again maybe we'll see high-amp 18650s with much higher capacities before that.
 

Visus

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Yeah, e-cig probably more feasible than that.

What that guy is probably gong to find out is that capacitors "leak"...they discharge over time. So if he let that car sit for 3 days he may be disappointed. Now, that depends on the capacitors too of course. Some hold a charge longer than others.

Best guess.

That's why he's also discussing a Li-Ion battery or solar charge backup, I'm guessing.

EDIT: Watched the rest. Yeah, they leak more over time, he tested it. I was impressed with how long it did last though. I don't think you can let it set for, say, a week or more...

He made another video with a huge lipo backup on this cap bank and left his car for ten days and it started, held a good charge too.
The sag like mundy said would make it draw from the backup so without a redundant charger like an alternator in line for free kinetics charging, may as well just use a good switching reg, almost same principle.. It takes a while on that at least 60amp alternator for the caps to recover from starting the vehicle..
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It was a good thread unk chuck I learned something lol..
 
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