Tell us your experience with WTA

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chewie

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Like I mentioned in another post, my 97 year old doctor in Virginia prescribed 3 cigarettes a day to non-smokers who suffered from IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome). This was back in 1989-1990. There are different sets of symptoms with IBS. Some get non-stop ........ with mucous (and even blood) that requires medication to make the bowels stop, and a diet of rice, bananas, and bland foods (that can put the condition into complete remission sometimes). Then there are the set of symptoms of IBS when the sufferer doesn't have B. M.s at all, for up to 3 to 7 days at a time. Sometimes when the bombs are in the lower deployment bay, a cigarette helps them to deploy. My last pack of analogue cigarettes I have been handing out 1 at a time to my friend with IBS for the past 3 months, and the pack is still over half full. He quit smoking tobacco a few years ago when he was diagnosed with COPD, he does Personal Care Work for me, and gets paid by Medicaid to do so through a Home Health Agency, per arrangement through Colorado's Innovage Long Term Care and Medicaid. We were friends off and on almost 20 years before that. I had IBS and was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, or IBD, (Inflammatory Bowel Disease) when I was only 19 years old. This was possibly from taking diet pills with phenylpropanolamine (75mg time released) for energy and weight loss (I was also anorexic and bulemic), that you could order from the back of magazines as ".357 Magnums," "Pink Hearts," "Black Beauties," and other "speed" names from the 1960s, this was during 1987 - 1989. I was consuming enormous amounts of alcohol at the time too. Wow, talk about TMI (Too Much Information). :blush:

Around the year 2000, phenylpropanolamine was banned from over the counter medications by the FDA, it was in a lot of cold medications as a nasal decongestant, and popular diet pills Accutrim and Dexatrim. It was discovered to cause approximately 500 strokes per year in women. It can also be used to manufacture amphetamine, according to the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005. I stopped using it in 1990 or 1991 sometime I think, I forget, it was a long time ago.

Anyway, yes, the doctors even know the tobacco moves the bowels, they probably just didn't know 20 years ago, or even now for that matter, that minor alkaloids were the "medicine," and not the nicotine alone.

Which begs the question: :confused:

How do we educate doctors and Addictionologists to the fact that cigarette smokers, and other tobacco users, are addicted to nicotine and an entire spectrum of minor alkaloids, in addition to just nicotine alone? How will they learn that Harm Reduction outreach must include nicotine with minor alkaloids if they are going to have a higher success rate turning smokers into non-smokers, or at best, and proudly, WTA e-liquid vapers?

This discovery is too important to keep from the rest of the world. Problem is, once the FDA finds us on their radar, they will want to monitor and control what Aroma ejuice manufactures and sells. That could be a stumbling block to our access and their income for a while, if not permanently, if Big Tobacco gets their way, as they usually do. Does that mean we do our best to remain in stealth mode, and avoid an education campaign of the minor alkaloids in the field of addiction research and education? :facepalm:
 

kingcobra

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How do we educate doctors? You cannot understand how funny this is to me. How do we educate the workers at the Nazi Death Camps? They already get all the direction they need from their superiors. Doctors have been shown to be the most brainwashed segment of our society, but only slightly more so than the general population. Meanwhile, the huge industry which promotes and maintains disease flourishes more and more with each passing year. So don't get me started there :D
 

chewie

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How do we educate doctors? You cannot understand how funny this is to me. How do we educate the workers at the Nazi Death Camps? They already get all the direction they need from their superiors. Doctors have been shown to be the most brainwashed segment of our society, but only slightly more so than the general population. Meanwhile, the huge industry which promotes and maintains disease flourishes more and more with each passing year. So don't get me started there :D

Oh I want to get you started there! ;)

Maybe this forum isn't the appropriate venue, but I am curious to hear your view about the medical profession, especially since you don't appear to put them on a pedestal, and pretend you are a helpless dumb consumer at the mercy of the "all-knowing" magic ones. My therapists threaten to withhold my medications, with statements that I don't blindly follow every stupid, self-destructive instruction my doctors and nurses give me, as though I am a recalcitrant child undermining adult authority. I don't mean "paranoid mind" in a negative context. Anyone with a paranoid mind has one because they have good reason. At least myself, I feel I have been wronged in many ways by the medical profession, and I know many people who maybe haven't personally been wronged by the medical profession, but have watched a familiy member and loved one be wronged by the medical profession. So I have a rightfully earned paranoid mind, when it comes to obeying any instruction a doctor gives me, after the past 20-30 years of being a human guinea pig, and nearly dying many times from following their ignorant advice, after I have read medical journals stating that following their advice would be deadly, in advance of hearing their instructions. When I refused to comply, they reviled me, even when I could bring them published literature showing them they were prescribing me drugs that would be extremely deadly in any and all circumstances, if taken in combination of one another, without exception. Some drug combinations can be deadly, you just have to keep an eye on things, others are deadly and cannot be tried under any circumstances, and my examples are of the latter. And my examples aren't limited to the prescribing of prescription medications, but other therapies as well.

Just let me know when and where. MSN Messenger, I am ashamed to admit I don't have the latest version installed anymore, but I do have Trillian an older version installed, which has a working access to MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, and several other Instant Messaging and chat clients in one awesome application. I can always update it to the latest working version, or install whatever you use. I want to talk about what those damn medical professionals have done to me and the people. They make me want to go "postal," if you know what I mean. I believe the vast majority of doctors are blatant psychotic murderers in white lab coats, without a working sense of social responsibility, without a conscience, without a sense of "right" and "wrong," in order to live with the day to day pressures of practicing medicine in the Amerikan procedure, and not have their careers destroyed for lack of complicity in the disease creating, drug-dependency sub-plot.
:evil:

Well, no, seriously: when you say, "don't get me started there," if it's a sensitive issue for you, and you don't want to talk about it for real, then so be it. Some people just use that expression sarcastically, because they don't believe anyone really cares what they think about an issue, not that they really don't want anyone to "get me started." But I respect anybody's wishes not to discuss something in this forum, or out of the forum, if they don't want to talk about it for real, and they mean for real. Your accurate and brilliant analogy just got me curious about how you came to your opinions on the topic of educating doctors, one of the most brainwashed segments of our society indeed.
:offtopic:

It's interesting you mention that you find educating doctors humorous, as I find it frustrating. My primary care clinic is run by a training clinic and hospital, not Denver Health & Hospitals which fulfills a similar function, but this one is a training facility for University of Health Sciences of Colorado. They have more than one, this one happens to be closest to my home, and I have to go to a multiple services facility rather than just a primary care doctor, because of all the specialty care I require. And at such a young age as well. I have tried to go the route of primary care in a doctor's office, with specialty referrals, and eventually they just wouldn't let me do it anymore. Where I go, the students do 4 years of residency, under the supervision of aging Attending Physicians. Now normally, I prefer aging doctors, they have more experience, knowledge, and skill. But in the system where the majority of the patients they treat are on Medicare and Medicaid, and not private insurance or self pay, they are totally different in their attitudes and behavior. They are burned out, teach bad habits to the residents, and kill their excitement to make a difference, and "change the world" so to speak, that is so evident in the youth. The Attending physicians break the residents of their good attitudes, and teach them poor habits, lackadaisical treatment methods, overlooking the regimens recommended by all the specialists they send me to, making my time I spend going to the specialists a waste of my time and their time. I've only just begun. Enough ... for this thread/forum.
 

kingcobra

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Well perhaps I shouldn't have gotten YOU started :D

The last time I was attended by an MD was in 1967. I was just a boy and they insisted on taking my tonsils out, against my wishes, however with the consent of my parents who can't be blamed. So that wasn't a real big deal, and I haven't been wronged by this evil profession as you speculate, although that's only because I would rather go to a Witch doctor than one of these people.

I don't really want to get off topic like this though, but since you brought all of this up I will briefly share my thoughts. Allopathic medicine is by its very nature blind. It fundamentally seeks to treat symptoms, which is by itself a huge mistake. It is not the least bit interested in curing anyone of anything, although it may provide lip service to that. It basically serves to combat the body's natural homeostasis.

So for instance, if you have high blood pressure, the high blood pressure is a necessary compensation for an underlying condition. So the inglorious profession reasons that the problem is with the high blood pressure, so they reduce it. The underlying condition persists, but now the body's compensation, it's attempt to deal with it, has been limited.

So that's just one simple example. So this wasn't even all that bad until allopathic medicine became a bigger and bigger business. When you combine this patent misunderstanding of what the aims of medicine should be with economic greed then you create a monster. That's what we have now. Imagine trusting people with your health who stand to profit immensely from illness.

It's not the pawns so much, the individual physicians, that are to blame, it is the great machine behind it who are out to make the biggest profit they can, not care for your health. Whether or not they can cook up the science to back them up is of no consequence either. I hear they are looking to give statin drugs to kids now, they want to give these to everyone on the planet, in spite of no scientific evidence whatsoever that they provide any benefit but plenty of evidence showing they cause significant harm.

Of course many people think that this is all heretical, so all I tell people is to not just blindly give over your health and your life to this gang of thugs, but instead start looking to educate yourself on all of this, even if just a little. People need to use their own brains in life and this is a perfect example of people shirking.

So that's all I'm going to say here, I'm not looking to turn this into a medical debate. Hopefully your condition improves.
 

janieT

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I received a sample of the WTA yesterday from an ECF forum friend. I guess I'm not sure how much I should use? I still want to vape my favorites and use the WTA to curb the analog cravings. I'm still using analogs and am hoping the WTA works. I just don't want to over do it with the WTA. The flavor is a Vanilla and its good, strong throat hit. I feel a little light headed and relaxed after a few puffs, but more than a few puffs makes my throat hurt, is that common?
 

snork

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I've seen reports like that before, but I wouldn't say it was common. WTA definitely has a different throat/mouth feel and personally I love it. Try to let your body tell you how much to vape. Vape a little bit and then let some time, maybe a half hour or so and see how you feel. See if that analog urge feels different. See if your eliquid urge feels different.
At least for this guinea pig, any amount of WTA has not been harmful in any way, I can vape it all the time all day long day after day. So at least for me there is no overdoing it.
 

Robinowitz

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So WTA, specifically WTA from Aroma's has been a game changer for me. After trying literally 100's of flavors (and being obsessed with my mod and the "next" vape) for about six months, I stumbled onto Aroma's website (I believe I learned about it on ECF). I bought both the flavored with WTA and DIiY WTA and haven't looked back. I completely relate to those who say "it scratches the itch." I actually feel more satisfied most of the time. I would be fibbing if I said that WTA does the same for me as smoking analogs. I don't believe there is such a thing. But then again, that complete satisfaction comes with a "few" risks like early death, smell, etc. :(
The bottom line is that WTA quells my cravings for tobacco and makes me more comfortable in my own skin. I'm proud that I have.been able to stop a 40 year smoking habit and I owe a lot of credit to Aroma. I bet those around me are grateful too! Hahaha
And oh yeah, Aroma's WTA is tasty. I'm not a tobacco flavor loving being, but this is good, quality stuff. I've tasted some from another vendor and didn't have the same experience. I'll stay with what works.
 

AndriaD

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I thought I would chime in with my own WTA experience, which has both its up-side and down-side.

First, a bit of history -- I started vaping around the end of January (this year). By the end of February, I laid the cigarettes down completely, and they stayed that way; I did have some emotional/depression issues around the 3wk and 3mo points, and WTA was suggested, but since I wasn't having any cravings, I thought maybe I'd better leave the WTA alone. By the time I got to about 70-80 days smoke-free, that time, my breathing was so much better, I barely needed my asthma inhaler at all.

Mid-June... I had to have an emergency appendectomy, on what was my 110th day smoke-free; zero complications even from the gen'l anesthesia, and it was laparoscopic, so I got to go home the same day. Although I felt just fine that day after the surgery, thanks to my very long-standing case of IBS, the next 4 days were a pure hell of nausea and vomiting, so I couldn't eat, vape, or even drink much of anything that would stay down. By the time I got to my 115th day smoke-free, the nausea was *mostly* over, but after 4 days of no vaping, vapor tasted HORRIBLE, but cravings were beating me to death. So I smoked, and it took me a full month to phase smoking out and vaping back in, but by July 25, I put the cigarettes down again, and by the end of the month, I was doing fine, not smoking, vaping back to tasting as it should. But, before the first week of August was out, cravings were again just beating the snot out of me. I didn't want to go back to smoking AGAIN and have to do it all over again, so I added some Virginia WTA to my regular Virginia, and the first full day of the added WTA, I suffered ZERO cravings. Truly miraculous!

When I was at 3wks smoke-free AGAIN, no depressive symptoms whatever, which I can only credit to WTA. I've continued adding that small amount of WTA to whatever ejuice I'm vaping, and it has continued to keep me absolutely craving-free. However, sometime in this period I finally got to the point where my Virginia just didn't taste good to me anymore, and I started vaping a mix I make of blueberry muffin and banana nut bread ejuice. So, knowing that my 3mo smoke free was coming up, when I bought WTA last time, I bought the "best berry pancakes" WTA to add to that blueberry/banana mix, and it's working ok, and tastes ok too.

But here's the problem: when I bought the Virginia WTA, I was pleased that it was 70PG/30VG, because that didn't mess up my proportions too badly in my Virginia mix. But, the berry pancakes WTA is 20PG/80VG, so, I can't add very much of it to my mix or it totally screws my PG/VG proportions -- I bought it in the 24mg strength, even though I can only vape at about 10mg, so that I wouldn't need to add so much of it, *because* of the PG/VG problem. But, now I'm nearly at 12 wks smoke-free, and my breathing just SUCKS -- totally different from when I was at 70-80 days smoke-free the first time, when I wasn't using WTA at all -- I'm using my rescue inhaler 12 or 15 puffs a day instead of the 8 puffs per day I'm supposed to take, and just walking out to the mailbox makes me feel like I've run a mile, I'm gasping and wheezing so bad. So it seems like I can either be free of cravings and depression, or I can breathe well -- seems I can't have both good emotional balance and good breathing. It's pretty hard to choose, to be honest. With this high VG WTA, I can't breathe; without it, I'm afraid I won't WANT to keep breathing. Mind you, the berry pancakes WTA/24mg is only 11% of my total mix in my ejuice, and frankly, I'm starting to get dragged down with depressive feelings, with my 3mo point coming up -- but I'm scared to add anymore WTA to my mix for fear that I won't be able to breathe at all -- VG does that to me, I just can't breathe. My total mix proportions are right around 75PG/25VG, but it still seems like too much VG -- I'd really like to go up to about 80% PG, but to do that, I'll have to lower my WTA percentage, which I'm afraid will make the depression even worse.

So I'm kinda stuck. :(

Andria
 

radiokaos

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I thought I would chime in with my own WTA experience, which has both its up-side and down-side.

First, a bit of history -- I started vaping around the end of January (this year). By the end of February, I laid the cigarettes down completely, and they stayed that way; I did have some emotional/depression issues around the 3wk and 3mo points, and WTA was suggested, but since I wasn't having any cravings, I thought maybe I'd better leave the WTA alone. By the time I got to about 70-80 days smoke-free, that time, my breathing was so much better, I barely needed my asthma inhaler at all.

Mid-June... I had to have an emergency appendectomy, on what was my 110th day smoke-free; zero complications even from the gen'l anesthesia, and it was laparoscopic, so I got to go home the same day. Although I felt just fine that day after the surgery, thanks to my very long-standing case of IBS, the next 4 days were a pure hell of nausea and vomiting, so I couldn't eat, vape, or even drink much of anything that would stay down. By the time I got to my 115th day smoke-free, the nausea was *mostly* over, but after 4 days of no vaping, vapor tasted HORRIBLE, but cravings were beating me to death. So I smoked, and it took me a full month to phase smoking out and vaping back in, but by July 25, I put the cigarettes down again, and by the end of the month, I was doing fine, not smoking, vaping back to tasting as it should. But, before the first week of August was out, cravings were again just beating the snot out of me. I didn't want to go back to smoking AGAIN and have to do it all over again, so I added some Virginia WTA to my regular Virginia, and the first full day of the added WTA, I suffered ZERO cravings. Truly miraculous!

When I was at 3wks smoke-free AGAIN, no depressive symptoms whatever, which I can only credit to WTA. I've continued adding that small amount of WTA to whatever ejuice I'm vaping, and it has continued to keep me absolutely craving-free. However, sometime in this period I finally got to the point where my Virginia just didn't taste good to me anymore, and I started vaping a mix I make of blueberry muffin and banana nut bread ejuice. So, knowing that my 3mo smoke free was coming up, when I bought WTA last time, I bought the "best berry pancakes" WTA to add to that blueberry/banana mix, and it's working ok, and tastes ok too.

But here's the problem: when I bought the Virginia WTA, I was pleased that it was 70PG/30VG, because that didn't mess up my proportions too badly in my Virginia mix. But, the berry pancakes WTA is 20PG/80VG, so, I can't add very much of it to my mix or it totally screws my PG/VG proportions -- I bought it in the 24mg strength, even though I can only vape at about 10mg, so that I wouldn't need to add so much of it, *because* of the PG/VG problem. But, now I'm nearly at 12 wks smoke-free, and my breathing just SUCKS -- totally different from when I was at 70-80 days smoke-free the first time, when I wasn't using WTA at all -- I'm using my rescue inhaler 12 or 15 puffs a day instead of the 8 puffs per day I'm supposed to take, and just walking out to the mailbox makes me feel like I've run a mile, I'm gasping and wheezing so bad. So it seems like I can either be free of cravings and depression, or I can breathe well -- seems I can't have both good emotional balance and good breathing. It's pretty hard to choose, to be honest. With this high VG WTA, I can't breathe; without it, I'm afraid I won't WANT to keep breathing. Mind you, the berry pancakes WTA/24mg is only 11% of my total mix in my ejuice, and frankly, I'm starting to get dragged down with depressive feelings, with my 3mo point coming up -- but I'm scared to add anymore WTA to my mix for fear that I won't be able to breathe at all -- VG does that to me, I just can't breathe. My total mix proportions are right around 75PG/25VG, but it still seems like too much VG -- I'd really like to go up to about 80% PG, but to do that, I'll have to lower my WTA percentage, which I'm afraid will make the depression even worse.

So I'm kinda stuck. :(

Andria


Hey Andria,

I'm glad you posted here. I have read some of your posts on the forum but due to ECF rules I can not contact you outside the aroma subforum.

There are a few things in your post that concern me.

Instead of us going back and forth with a lot of questions and answers posted on the forum it may be easier to speak on the phone.

If you are comfortable talking with me on the phone just send me a PM with your phone number and I will call you today.

When was the last time you saw your doctor?
 
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AndriaD

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Hey Andria,

I'm glad you posted here. I have read some of your posts on the forum but due to ECF rules I can not contact you outside the aroma subforum.

There are a few things in your post that concern me.

Instead of us going back and forth with a lot of questions and answers posted on the forum it may be easier to speak on the phone.

If you are comfortable talking with me on the phone just send me a PM with your phone number and I will call you today.

When was the last time you saw your doctor?


I replied to your PM!

Thx!
Andria
 

catsmeow

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For me it is life saving. I have chronic depression with periodic severe episodes. Every time I have quit in the past with the exception of Chantix I have had crushing depression set in around the 2 week mark which antidepressants did not help. We are talking brain tells me to jump out of a Window levels. Chantix worked but at the 6 month mark you have to stop taking it and the depression came roaring back. At week two of vaping the same thing happened and I had to start smoking periodically to stop it. I was feeling discouraged and came back here. I had read previously about wta but it was an old thread so I wasn't aware it was available. Did another search an low and behold it was!

I am now at the two week mark again but this time with WTA. No crushing depression, anxiety or irritation whatsoever. I have smoked a few times but have not actually bought a pack which is amazing for me. I also don't chain vape on this like I did with the other non WTA. My only issue if you can call it that is that I am not tasting much. This is truly life saving stuff. My biggest fear is that the FDA will put the kibosh on this. If that happens I will have to resort to smoking again which I don't want to do. After 30 years of smoking I think I can finally quit and not want to die.
 

catsmeow

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You'll get get no disagreement from me. I have experience advocating for legalization of things. I have a rare disease called systemic mastocytosis and we have had to battle the FDA on numerous occasions to get drugs approved here that are available in other countries and get them to re approve other drugs that were made unavailable due to new restrictions.
 

Robinowitz

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Good news Cats! Hang in there!

The flavor issue is tiny in comparison to other stuff, but I hear you. For those of us that don't enjoy "smooth tobacco flavors" maybe consider getting one of the flavored ejuice that's infused with WTA. Really, really good. Complex, non-perfumey tasting. What flavors do you like? There are reviews on the website and some of us may be able to give you our 2 cents.

You also have the option to add flavoring (non Nic) from other vendors.
 

AndriaD

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Well I hit 12 weeks smoke-free last week, and now going on 90 days, and the only reason it's possible is because of WTA. Now that I'm once again around the 3mo point, the depression is bothering me again; I've had to cut back sharply on my WTA the last few days, because the high-VG was just making it impossible to breathe, but yesterday, I felt a lot of that old feeling, of not really giving a hang if I kept breathing or not, so I had to add back just a little more of my WTA mix. Breathing is a little more problematic this morning, but at least I don't hate the world, myself, and everything, and wonder why I bother to keep hanging around. Hopefully soon this wretched "rule of 3's" will be over for me... I hope. I've struggled with depression for so long, I'm soooooooo tired of it, but breathing does seem to be necessary to keep living. To WANT to keep living, I guess I need WTA, so I'll have to juggle my days, some days WTA, some days not. I'm determined not to smoke, because it really seems like a paradox -- to want to keep living, I need the stuff that's in cigarettes... which will ultimately kill me. :facepalm:

Andria
 

hittman

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    I struggled myself with depression for some time. I don't know if it was as bad as yours or not but it was there. I was wondering if you've tried any of the aroma line which has mostly pg? If that doesn't work then perhaps you might consider some snus portions for those days you can't vape the wta. I've known a few ladies that use it. The mini portions are very discreet.
     
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