R.J. Reynolds vs. JUUL: Corporate Cat Fight!

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Izan

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somdcomputerguy

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    Now I don't personally know for certain that kids are using Juuls in particular, or just any other pods, but I do know that Juuls are more easily obtainable. When I'm sometimes in a convenience store, Juuls and no other pods are the ones that are for sale. Besides, kids want other kids to see them wearing a 300 to 400 dollar pair of name brand jeans or sneakers rather than clothes or shoes that are a lot less expensive and really are practically the same thing..
     

    bombastinator

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    Now I don't personally know for certain that kids are using Juuls in particular, or just any other pods, but I do know that Juuls are more easily obtainable. When I'm sometimes in a convenience store, Juuls and no other pods are the ones that are for sale. Besides, kids want other kids to see them wearing a 300 to 400 dollar pair of name brand jeans or sneakers rather than clothes or shoes that are a lot less expensive and really are practically the same thing..
    There is conflicting data on this one, just not in the US. JUUL has never been able to break into the EU children’s market because unlike here, the maximum amount of nicotine is capped at 20mg/ml. Too low for JUUL to work it’s magic. There it’s just another ecig.
     

    Annette Rogers

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    This is odd. R.J. Reynolds and JUUL are both controlled to one degree or another by the same parent company. Maybe a fight to see who the favorite child is?
    Bombastinator, I think I confused you by including the photo of Marlboro cigarettes in the post. Marlboro and JUUL are owned by Philip Morris whose parent company is Altria. R.J. Reynolds is owned by Reynolds American Inc. which in turn is owned by British American Tobacco of the United Kingdom. So they are two separate companies with competing interests.
     
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    Annette Rogers

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    There is conflicting data on this one, just not in the US. JUUL has never been able to break into the EU children’s market because unlike here, the maximum amount of nicotine is capped at 20mg/ml. Too low for JUUL to work it’s magic. There it’s just another ecig.

    This is an EXCELLENT point, bombastinator, and something I've been researching for an upcoming post. As you said, in the EU, JUUL wasn't able dominate by offering nic levels higher than anyone else had ever offered before. In addition, in the United States, JUUL listed their nicotine levels by weight rather than volume. On their website they state nic levels of 5%, which, using the way all previous manufacturers listed nic levels (by volume) logically led many people to assume that meant 50 mg/mL. You have to dig deep into their FAQ's to find the true number which is 59 mg/mL because they measure it by WEIGHT rather than VOLUME. I believe this was done purposefully to reduce the sticker shock many people might otherwise have felt at seeing nic levels so much higher than anyone had ever offered before.

    JUUL hasn't given up on the EU yet, though. Because they are limited to 20 mg/mL, JUUL is developing a new, more powerful e-cig to sell there. A quote from my upcoming post on this topic which you might find interesting:

    JUUL is trying to sell the new device as an innocent attempt to offer vapers larger, more satisfying vape clouds but not everyone is buying that explanation. The New York Times put it bluntly, "Facing public backlash and overseas restrictions [on nicotine levels in e-liquid], the company is working on a way to lower the nicotine in its pods — but still maintain a potent punch from the addictive chemical."

    The Times article quoted Micah Berman, associate professor of public health and law at The Ohio State University who spoke about the new JUUL e-cigs under development.

    "If it’s a change that reduces test levels of nicotine — the amount you would identify as being in the pod itself — but doesn’t actually change the biological level, then that’s certainly problematic. It’s more like cheating the test," Berman stated.
     

    bombastinator

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    Bombastinator, I think I confused you by including the photo of Marlboro cigarettes in the post. Marlboro and JUUL are owned by Philip Morris whose parent company is Altria. R.J. Reynolds is owned by Reynolds American Inc. which in turn is owned by British American Tobacco of the United Kingdom. So they are two separate companies with competing interests.
    I was under the impression that BT and atria are the same company. It was merely a name change.
     
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    bombastinator

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    This is an EXCELLENT point, bombastinator, and something I've been researching for an upcoming post. As you said, in the EU, JUUL wasn't able dominate by offering nic levels higher than anyone else had ever offered before. In addition, in the United States, JUUL listed their nicotine levels by weight rather than volume. On their website they state nic levels of 5%, which, using the way all previous manufacturers listed nic levels (by volume) logically led many people to assume that meant 50 mg/mL. You have to dig deep into their FAQ's to find the true number which is 59 mg/mL because they measure it by WEIGHT rather than VOLUME. I believe this was done purposefully to reduce the sticker shock many people might otherwise have felt at seeing nic levels so much higher than anyone had ever offered before.

    JUUL hasn't given up on the EU yet, though. Because they are limited to 20 mg/mL, JUUL is developing a new, more powerful e-cig to sell there. A quote from my upcoming post on this topic which you might find interesting:

    JUUL is trying to sell the new device as an innocent attempt to offer vapers larger, more satisfying vape clouds but not everyone is buying that explanation. The New York Times put it bluntly, "Facing public backlash and overseas restrictions [on nicotine levels in e-liquid], the company is working on a way to lower the nicotine in its pods — but still maintain a potent punch from the addictive chemical."

    The Times article quoted Micah Berman, associate professor of public health and law at The Ohio State University who spoke about the new JUUL e-cigs under development.

    "If it’s a change that reduces test levels of nicotine — the amount you would identify as being in the pod itself — but doesn’t actually change the biological level, then that’s certainly problematic. It’s more like cheating the test," Berman stated.
    I never understood personally how JUUL manageged to squeak protonated nicotine into the marketplace without any safety testing whatsoever myself. They’re different chemicals.
     

    Annette Rogers

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    I was under the impression that BT and atria are the same company. It was merely a name change.

    I think the name change you're thinking of was Philip Morris (owner of the Marlboro brand) which became Altria. Philip Morris completes its rebranding to Altria Group

    According to Wikipedia, "The R. J. Reynolds Tobacco Company (RJR), based in Winston-Salem, North Carolina and founded by R. J. Reynolds in 1875,[1] is the second-largest tobacco company in the U.S. (behind Altria). RJR is a wholly owned subsidiary of Reynolds American Inc., which, in turn, is owned by British American Tobacco of the United Kingdom."
     
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    bombastinator

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    I think the name change you're thinking of was Philip Morris (owner of the Marlboro brand) which became Altria. Philip Morris completes its rebranding to Altria Group

    According to Wikipedia, "The R. J. Reynolds Tobacco Company (RJR), based in Winston-Salem, North Carolina and founded by R. J. Reynolds in 1875,[1] is the second-largest tobacco company in the U.S. (behind Altria). RJR is a wholly owned subsidiary of Reynolds American Inc., which, in turn, is owned by British American Tobacco of the United Kingdom."
    The information I had was BOTH Phillip Morris and RJ Reynolds were bought by BT and they changed their name to Altria because the term BT caused too many jokes.
    One of us is wrong. Or at least partially wrong. There may be obfuscation as to who actually controls who. I ran into that one locally with grocery store chains. There was one company more or less pretending to be three different ones.
     

    Annette Rogers

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    I'm really interested to know if that's true. I can't find any information to suggest any corporate alliance between British American Tobacco and Altria but, as you said, it can be difficult to uncover in some cases. Can you find a source? Also, I have to ask, what's the joke about BT? Whatever it is, I guess it went over my head, lol.
     
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    bombastinator

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    I'm really interested to know if that's true. I can't find any information to suggest any corporate alliance between British American Tobacco and Altria but, as you said, it can be difficult to uncover in some cases. Can you find a source? Also, I have to ask, what's the joke about BT? Whatever it is, I guess it went over my head, lol.
    B.T. Big Tobacco.

    I don’t have a specific source I’m afraid. +90% of my information on vaping comes from this site though. I’ve been reading it for a long time and stuff gets collated in my brain. It would have been a claim made here. My brain is vaguely associating a Wiley coyote avatar with the information. It’s all I got. That may be nothing or even wrong though.
     
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    Izan

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    Of course, Big Tobacco, LOL!
    IMO,
    BT, Big Tobacco is an umbrella term that refers to all the world's huge tobacco empires.
    BP, Big Pharma is an umbrella term that refers to all the world's huge pharmaceutical empires.

    Cheers
    I
     
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    Izan

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    There is conflicting data on this one, just not in the US. JUUL has never been able to break into the EU children’s market because unlike here, the maximum amount of nicotine is capped at 20mg/ml. Too low for JUUL to work it’s magic. There it’s just another ecig.
    It's not the nicotine content. It's the caprice.
    The middle class in the EU does not have the resources to buy "luxury" social media baubles.
    In the EU, we pay about $7.00 for a gallon of gas and have been doing so since 2012.

    Consider the US.
    Is the JUUL epidemic "real" in low income, inner-city schools?
    How much social media content is being created by those students at or below the poverty line? (with a $1000 Iphone, a data plan and fiber at home?)
    It's simple economics. The Juul epidemic is only an issue for the middle to upper class.
    The Poor in the US Are Richer than the Middle Class in Much of Europe | Ryan McMaken

    Cheers
    I
     
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