New to rebuilding / Battery questions

[hunterrhuskyy]

Hello like I said I'm new to rebuilding, I recently ordered an Akuma 18650 and 18350 cylinder.
I am looking to buy one 18650 battery and one 18350 as well as a charger for both of them.
I was shopping for those online and found a TrustFire TR-001 along with two AW IMR 18350 700 mAh Li MN batteries for $22.99.
I am going to be using a Plume Veil clone and I do not know what ohm coil build to use or pretty much anything, any helpful beginner info is very much appreciated!

 

[Rickw57]

Don't get the trustfire. Go for something like a Sony vtc4/vtc5 or Samsung 25r or Efest 35A.

As for a build on your plume veil, it depends on what you want. Do you want high ohms, low ohms?

I generally build dual coil 24awg at around 0.35 ohm. If you make a single coil, it would be 0.7 ohm.

For a charger, I'd got for a intellicharger i2 or a Um20 from nitecore.

 

[dbrandt01]

I'd not get the trust fire charger. xtar has some nice chargers and nitecore isn't bad either.
The AW IMR batteries are great though. They're highly recommended and praised throughout the Reo community. I use the 18650s every single day and prefer them over any other battery.

 

[Susan~S]

Two thumbs down on the Trustfires. If you need a 30A CDR battery the Sony VTC4 is a good choise. There are no "Authentic" VTC5's available at any of the reputable battery suppliers.

Instead of getting the AW IMR 18350 700mAh 6A CDR get instead the AW IMR 18350 800mAh 12A CDR. Double the CDR compared to the one you mentioned.

I highly recommend you spend some time with Baditude (one of our resident battery experts) and visit his blogs. You are now 100% in control of your own safety (and others around you). Make sure you purchase an ohm reader and a voltmeter or DMM so you can measure your builds, check for shorts and measure the remaining charge on your batteries.

Baditudes Blogs. The blogs that address battery safety, Ohm's Law, CDR (continuous discharge rating/Amps) and how they all work together are detailed below:

BATTERIES

Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected ICR?
* Another essential read to understand which batteries are safe to use in mechanical and regulated mods. Includes a frequently updated list of recommended safe-chemistry, high-drain batteries with their specifications.

Purple Efest Batteries not as Advertised
* A cautionary blog that reveals that the purple Efest batteries may not have the specifications advertised. Also includes a commentary on "continuous discharge ratings" vs "pulse discharge ratings" of battery specs.

OHM'S LAW

Ohm's Law for Dummies (Vapers)
* My attempt at explaining Ohm's Law in layman terms and how it relates to vaping.

Explain it to the Dumb Noob: Ohm's Law Calculations
* As simple as it is to use, some people have a tough time grasping the concept. Warning: Includes graphic photos of mod explosions.

BATTERIES - WHERE TO BUY

Only buy batteries from a reputable supplier (not ebay or Amazon) as there are many counterfeit batteries being sold. Here are several reputable battery suppliers in the US.

* RTD Vapor
* Illumination Supply
* Lighthound
* Orbtronics

 

[Baditude]

Do as Susan says.

 

[KenD]

There are no "Authentic" VTC5's available at any of the reputable battery suppliers.

I'm not sure about that. There's a German battery seller, akkuteile.de, that recently got some more vtc5s in stock. They only sell batteries (and chargers), and I've never heard of them selling fakes.

 

[Completely Average]

I'm not sure about that. There's a German battery seller, akkuteile.de, that recently got some more vtc5s in stock. They only sell batteries (and chargers), and I've never heard of them selling fakes.

Sony has confirmed that they only make VTC5 for OEM vendors, not retail sales. You cannot buy VTC5s directly from Sony or any of their approved vendors. I wouldn't trust any VTC5s you see out there, there are a LOT of fakes, and the real ones don't carry any markings that show they are true VTC5s. (No brand name or part number on the outside of the battery)

I only know of three 30A continuous drain 18650 batteries on the market right now.

Sony VTC4
Orbtronic SX30
Xtar 30A

If it's not one of those I wouldn't buy it.

 

[roxynoodle]

And the xtar is a rewrapped Sony vtc4. I unwrapped one to verify. It has a second positive end soldered on top though, which makes it longer. It won't fit in some mods. I actually removed one, but it left solder on the positive contact. So, I don't recommend doing that

 

[KenD]

Sony has confirmed that they only make VTC5 for OEM vendors, not retail sales. You cannot buy VTC5s directly from Sony or any of their approved vendors. I wouldn't trust any VTC5s you see out there, there are a LOT of fakes, and the real ones don't carry any markings that show they are true VTC5s. (No brand name or part number on the outside of the battery)

I only know of three 30A continuous drain 18650 batteries on the market right now.

Sony VTC4
Orbtronic SX30
Xtar 30A

If it's not one of those I wouldn't buy it.

Yes, but that information was given quite some time ago. And if I remember correctly it was about Sony not making any batteries available to non-OEMs (which would be logical - none of the batteries we use are really intended for other than OEMs). Thus vtc4s and vtc3s would also be on the market without Sony's approval. The manufacture of vtc5s was stopped due to the destruction of the Sony factory in Japan, wasn't it, and perhaps manufacture has gotten up to speed in other factories as well - with vtc5s finding their way to us "under the table" (vtc4s are out of stock at both Akkuteile and nkon).

In any case, I trust akkuteile to sell only authentic batteries, though I primarily use LG he4 and he2s (and a couple of old vtc4s).

 

[Completely Average]

I use nothing but Orbtronic.

They have their own manufacturing specs and aren't simply off the shelf rewrapped batteries like the Xtar. They also sell directly to the public which guarantees their authenticity. There are no questions about authenticity when you buy straight from Orbtronic themselves. Plus they come in their own insulating battery case which is nice. No one else does that. Don't know if they ship to Germany though.

Orbtronic is also coming out with a 3000 mAh 20A battery. No one else has one.


As far as VTC5 goes, Sony said they aren't making them for anyone other than contracted OEM equipment manufacturers. Period. I wouldn't trust any found in retail because I seriously doubt a manufacturing company that is producing equipment and is under contract with Sony is going to sell some of their stock to a store for retail sales. I don't care who they are I wouldn't trust any retail store selling VTC5 batteries to be selling authentic ones unless they could show me the documented proof of where the batteries came from. Not just "I bought them from this supplier" but "I bought them from this supplier, who got them from this manufacturer, who got them from Sony under this contract." And if their supplier is Chinese then I guarantee you they are fakes.

 

[KenD]

There's a lot of talk about the vtc5s, with very little in the way of evidence. Any links to official Sony statements regarding the batteries (I couldn't find any through Googleing)? The thing is, no Sony batteries are sold to regular consumers directly by the manufacturer. Not saying that it's not true that authentic VTC5s are completely unavailable to consumers, just that I need proof before I dismiss battery sellers that have been 100% reliable in the past (important to know for any future battery purchases).

 

[KenD]

I'd also like to see links for Orbtronic manufacturing (or commissioning the manufacture of) their own batteries. Their website states nothing of the sort.

 

[ElevenEleven]

A word of advice, stay away from anything that has 'fire' in its name.

 

[jonhs2703]

The LG HE2 is just about the best you can get for the money in my opinion.
Those are the ones I like to use.

 

[KenD]

The LG HE2 is just about the best you can get for the money in my opinion.
Those are the ones I like to use.

I love the LG he2 as well. Just got some of the updated ones, the he4, though. They're supposed to be better.

 

[Completely Average]

I'd also like to see links for Orbtronic manufacturing (or commissioning the manufacture of) their own batteries. Their website states nothing of the sort.

Just measure the diameter of an SX30. It's wider than any other 30A battery on the market.


Or, simply pay attention to what it says on the page. If the battery comes from a different manufacturer and is rewrapped, they tell you.

For example... Look at the manufacturer on the right side:

18650 NCR18650PF Panasonic IMR 2900 mAh Li-ion Battery button top by Orbtronic

Even the address tells you it's a Panasonic battery that's been rebranded as Orbtronic.

IMR 18650 Battery Orbtronic - Panasonic CGR18650CH With Top Button, 2250mAh IMR High Drain Cell-Made in Japan

Again a Panasonic.

IMR Orbtronic Ultra High Drain 18650 Orbtronic SX22 battery li-ion cell

Orbtronic exclusive. Notice it's a 22A battery. Do you know of any other 22A continuous discharge batteries on the market?

High Drain IMR 18650 Battery 30A Orbtronic SX30 rechargeable Li-ion Li-Mn

Again, exclusively Orbtronic.


Or you could put them on a meter and measure the voltage drop. Orbtronics SX30 has a lower voltage drop than the VTC4.



As for a link regarding Sony, why would Sony make a public announcement about a battery that was never intended to be sold to the public? I'll point out that the Xtar batteries are simply rewrapped Sony VTC, and they've discontinued their 2600 mAh (VTC5) versions as well. And they were buying them directly from Sony.

 

[Dryadsoul]

Here's a great source for all the authentic battery specs that one could ever need.

Battery test-review 18650 summary

 

[KenD]

Just measure the diameter of an SX30. It's wider than any other 30A battery on the market.


Or, simply pay attention to what it says on the page. If the battery comes from a different manufacturer and is rewrapped, they tell you.

For example... Look at the manufacturer on the right side:

18650 NCR18650PF Panasonic IMR 2900 mAh Li-ion Battery button top by Orbtronic

Even the address tells you it's a Panasonic battery that's been rebranded as Orbtronic.

IMR 18650 Battery Orbtronic - Panasonic CGR18650CH With Top Button, 2250mAh IMR High Drain Cell-Made in Japan

Again a Panasonic.

IMR Orbtronic Ultra High Drain 18650 Orbtronic SX22 battery li-ion cell

Orbtronic exclusive. Notice it's a 22A battery. Do you know of any other 22A continuous discharge batteries on the market?

High Drain IMR 18650 Battery 30A Orbtronic SX30 rechargeable Li-ion Li-Mn

Again, exclusively Orbtronic.

Ok

Or you could put them on a meter and measure the voltage drop. Orbtronics SX30 has a lower voltage drop than the VTC4.

Internal resistances in high quality high discharge batteries tend to be very similar though. Difficult to make any absolute conclusions there as differences between individual batteries and batteries of different brands can be very small. It's difficult to me to see much difference between my LG he2s and Sony vtc4s by measuring voltage drop.

As for a link regarding Sony, why would Sony make a public announcement about a battery that was never intended to be sold to the public? I'll point out that the Xtar batteries are simply rewrapped Sony VTC, and they've discontinued their 2600 mAh (VTC5) versions as well. And they were buying them directly from Sony.

If there is no such statement that can reliably be traced back to Sony how can we know what's the case with Sony?

Again, not saying that this is true, simply trying to find out how to determine if it's true. Personally I have no interest in vtc5s.