How Vaping will be Effectively Banned Nationwide

[WillyZee]

I predict nicotine will be heavily taxed ... with pending regulations ... black market nicotine might be as hard to obtain as black market gasoline.

buying premixed flavour and adding your own nic may not be as simple as it sounds.

 

[Bolivar]

How would they do that though?

If they put a tax on nicotine, that would mean additional taxes on traditional cigarettes as well. It would also mean taxes on hookah tobacco, pipe tobacco, cigars, absolutely everything tobacco related. Taxes placed upon things like nicotine gum and patches. Currently nicotine is also being researched for treating certain brain conditions, and has industrial uses.

It would be very difficult to do a blanket nicotine tax, taxing juice? That would be rather easy, but we could just get around that by selling nic free juice with nic shots sold separately added in. They couldn't tax nic free juice, because nic free juice is simple, common, widely used chemicals.

The government is stuck, I wouldn't put it past them to outreach their authority, or pass straight up illegal legislation, but it's going to be difficult for them to mess with vaping. If it was easy they would have done it before the ranks of supporters have swollen so large. The longer they wait, the harder it will be, and they know that.

I'm pretty sure there is already tax on cigars, pipe tobacco, etc...just not as high as cigarettes. There's not nearly as many of those users as cigarette users- tax the most users the heaviest.

The problem as I see it is that the same people that levy the tax also make the rules (convenient, no ?). If something doesn't fit into the agenda,all that has to be done is change how it is classified till it does fit. Much easier to do as compared to making a new law and getting that through the legislative process. Reclassification of nicotine would be a bureaucratic process rather than a legal one.





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[Uma]

They want to license it. Nic will only be sold to licensed vendors, & I'm sure they'll have still regulations on what they can do with it.

Dr. Farslinos released his nicotine report today. Nicotine absorption from electronic cigarette use: comparison between first and new generation devices

 

[Robino1]

Cigars aren't taxed as heavily because.............the good old boys in power still love their occasional cigars with their booze.

 

[Uma]

Yes, The fight is now!

I agree!!!!

 

[sonicdsl]

How would they do that though?

If they put a tax on nicotine, that would mean additional taxes on traditional cigarettes as well. It would also mean taxes on hookah tobacco, pipe tobacco, cigars, absolutely everything tobacco related. Taxes placed upon things like nicotine gum and patches. Currently nicotine is also being researched for treating certain brain conditions, and has industrial uses.

It would be very difficult to do a blanket nicotine tax, taxing juice? That would be rather easy, but we could just get around that by selling nic free juice with nic shots sold separately added in. They couldn't tax nic free juice, because nic free juice is simple, common, widely used chemicals.

The government is stuck, I wouldn't put it past them to outreach their authority, or pass straight up illegal legislation, but it's going to be difficult for them to mess with vaping. If it was easy they would have done it before the ranks of supporters have swollen so large. The longer they wait, the harder it will be, and they know that.

FWIW - taxes won't happen w/the gum & patches, at least in present conditions, as they are Pharmaceutical smoking cessation aids. They are expensive because of Big Pharma...because they can.

 

[zapped]

Cigarette taxes aren't anything to ignore. They range from 30 cents a pack (Vigrinia) to $4.35 (New York). In NJ you were paying $2.70 a pack tax.

I can see the government taxing nicotine to the point a bottle of juice costs as much as a pack of cigarettes....or more.




Sent from the north 40 via messenger cow

Thats just the state tax. Federal taxes account for as much as 4 dollars a pack.

I remember complaining about the cost going up at a convenience store when I was a smoker and a woman behind me said "I wish they'd just go ahead and ban them."

Not one to let an opportunity like that pass, I replied with "I dont recall either of us asking your opinion but since you gave it, how do you feel about YOUR taxes going through the roof when smokers are no longer paying 2 billion a year in taxes? "

If youve ever seen a catfish lying on a bank frantically trying to breathe with no water, thats a pretty fair impression of the look on her face.

 

[Easkone]

The FDA is not concerned with our health. They only care about their pockets! Sad but true. You can't trust any gov agency.


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[2coils]

I wouldn't concede to paying sin tax any more than I advocate for regulations. People are sounding like its ok or expect to pay tax. Its not ok. This is a harm reduction product, these are NOT cigarettes. Lets not concede anything. NO TO REGULATIONS NO TO TAX. if we start a negotiation from the middle ground we will lose every time. Our government (local, state, and federal) isn't compromising on anything without a fight, why should we.

 

[nancybout]

Agreed I don't support any regulation facism


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[nancybout]

I will Vape ZERO nic before I concede now just cause it pisses me off


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[pcrdude]

Weren't the cigarette taxes supposed to:

1) Fund the additional healthcare costs of smokers

and

2) Be a deterent to continue smoking to reduce #1

Unless there is clear evidence that vaping causes an additional healthcare burden on the tax coffers, any attempt to "sin tax" it is a transparaent sceme to get revenue without regard to helath concerns.

My humble opinion only....

 

[wv2win]

Weren't the cigarette taxes supposed to:

1) Fund the additional healthcare costs of smokers

and

2) Be a deterent to continue smoking to reduce #1

Unless there is clear evidence that vaping causes an additional healthcare burden on the tax coffers, any attempt to "sin tax" it is a transparaent sceme to get revenue without regard to helath concerns.

My humble opinion only....

You are correct on all counts. Although the money grab by the federal government, IMO, is less important to the FDA than serving their masters, Big Pharm. It is their profits that are being protected along with the ANTZ groups that Big Pharm funds along with the Tobacco Master Settlement funding. It's no coincidence that Obama appointed a Big Pharm lobbyist as the head of the FDA.

 

[Stosh]

Not to take this thread off topic, but this is a humorous read for the AM, and punctuates the possibilities expressed in this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/eu-legislation/533549-eu-decides-regulate-coffee.html#post12372809

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

I wouldn't concede to paying sin tax any more than I advocate for regulations. People are sounding like its ok or expect to pay tax. Its not ok. This is a harm reduction product, these are NOT cigarettes. Lets not concede anything. NO TO REGULATIONS NO TO TAX. if we start a negotiation from the middle ground we will lose every time. Our government (local, state, and federal) isn't compromising on anything without a fight, why should we.

Quite the contrary!

Following the precedent established by drug rehab programs, et al, these things should be government subsidized & distributed via the already established quit smoking programs.

Just last night I ran across a recent blog, guest written by the director of a smoking cessation program - short story she educated herself and the staff about vaping. e-cigs/vaping are now an unofficial part of their program.

Did anyone else see this? I can't find it amongst my 200+ open tabs ;(

Back to topic:

2coils said it exactly right!!

This is a harm reduction product, these are NOT cigarettes. Lets not concede anything. NO TO REGULATIONS NO TO TAX. if we start a negotiation from the middle ground we will lose every time. Our government (local, state, and federal) isn't compromising on anything without a fight, why should we?

 

[pcrdude]

Not to take this thread off topic, but this is a humorous read for the AM, and punctuates the possibilities expressed in this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/eu-legislation/533549-eu-decides-regulate-coffee.html#post12372809

That reminded me of other posts I have seen here on ECF. Those being with regard to the "pollution" caused by candles. They do produce soot, and VOCs, etc...

Therefore, if vapes are regulated, then so should be candles.....

 

[Red Horn]

I wouldn't concede to paying sin tax any more than I advocate for regulations. People are sounding like its ok or expect to pay tax. Its not ok. This is a harm reduction product, these are NOT cigarettes. Lets not concede anything. NO TO REGULATIONS NO TO TAX. if we start a negotiation from the middle ground we will lose every time. Our government (local, state, and federal) isn't compromising on anything without a fight, why should we.

Once you agree to concede just a little it becomes a start off point for the continued progression until you have nothing left. I for one do not want to see the flood gates opened.

 

[Fast and Furious]

I find more concern when those supposedly "representing the people" simply present these "bills" because of personal beliefs. They never ask "the people", but rather just write a 'bill' - find a supporter and then 'vote'.

Contacting representatives typically means the 'form letter' reply. Arguments for alternatives to cigarettes most always have the BS "Fo' Da' Chillun" included. Virtually identical wording is used without any concern for validity. Anything to exercise PEOPLE CONTROL and little about what 'THE PEOPLE" really want - it is all personal beliefs.

Obama, Biden, Pelosi - all of these political hacks do it every single day. Until they are held accountable WE will grasp the filthy end of the stick. They distort facts about firearms and only the minority challenge them; they use the same tactics on e-cigarettes.

Tom

 

[Bolivar]

<snip>...

Obama, Biden, Pelosi - all of these political hacks do it every single day. Until they are held accountable WE will grasp the filthy end of the stick. They distort facts about firearms and only the minority challenge them; they use the same tactics on e-cigarettes.

Tom

Don't forget Reid and Baynor. Every one of them a treasonous dog in my book.

 

[tonyorion]

Vaping has changed dramatically in the four years (April) in which I have been vaping.

1) I will have saved some $14,000 in cigs and spent perhaps $4,000. Since I buy everything on line (China and domestic internet sales), only a tiny fraction of my purchases has gone back into any government coffers-certainly none into any Michigan state or Michigan local government. The only taxes paid were at the level of vendor in another state/country in the form of property/company/ employer contributions, etc. Multiply that by the number of smokers who have switched over to ecigs, and you come up with a very big number. That number is just too big to ignore.

2) The scum of the earth, the B&M's, have been responsible for spreading the use of ecigs with the kids. I know of only one shop of the half dozen or so which I have visited which has an age restriction on purchases. Kids vaping will be a huge argument for regulators justifying restrictions and controls.

3) Inept sub ohm vapers are running around with pipe bombs which can hurt other people. Most of them do not know an ohm from a hole in the wall. It will generate an ungodly amount of negative publicity for electronic cigarettes.

4) Big Tobacco has started to buy ecig companies. It wants its investment protected with regulation and has the skills, equipment, scientists, and spin doctors to put up against a very fragmented industry.

So how will government control ecigs?

The answers are simple:

1) Control credit card companies and ebay. It would effectively halt internet sales

2) Force the B&M's to obtain tobacco sales licenses or some sort of license other than a retail one

The ecig users who will face the biggest problems are the ones using the cig a likes being sold through traditional retail. Stop by a Sam's, Costco, convenience store, or gas station lately? Ecigs have prominent sales displays.

It will be almost impossible to regulate the people who use mods. They can be sold as flashlights. I even have one: a tec flashlight mod. It uses a Sigelei rattlesnake chipset. It would be no problem to sell them with a cheap led head. BTW, that TEC is really bright and is a beautifully made mod.

Pre mixed juices with nicotine could fall under some sort of control. It would bankrupt the juice suppliers to begin the incredibly complicated and horrifically expensive toxicology studies.

It really is impossible to tell what percentage of vapers actually make their own juices, but it has to be a relatively small number. Would regulators even bother? Regulators could eventually get around to trying to regulate nicotine, but other than tax it what else could they do? Would you need a "farmer's license" to purchase it for insecticide? It would impossible to regulate the sale of PG, VG, or flavors without creating a regulatory nightmare.

Toppers could be a problem for some of the newer vapers and carto and regular atty users, but today's RBA's and RDA's are really very good. They will last several lifetimes with proper care.

Unfortunately, part of the vaping community feels it is its God given right, no duty, to blow massive clouds of some foul brew into the faces of non vapers. The thing they keep forgetting that they are in the minority.

I am not vaping to make a political statement. The only reason I vape is to stay away from tobacco.