WARNING! This is VERY dangerous!

[Volgot]

Hi!

I was very new in all of this staff when my girlfriend asked me to help her to choose the right e-cig.
So, we ordered Bloog MAXX as we thought it could be good (thanks to this forum!)

But, I've discovered a few terrible things which I would like to share.

First, all of my friends who stopped smoking any kind of cigarettes looks healthy.
I took note that most of people who shows up with e-cigarettes on the youtube looks like poisoned a little bit (paleness, tiredness or fatigue, asf).

Second, I find this article Vegetable glycerine (glycerol) - safety discussion:

Heated at 280 deg C Vegetable glycerine (VG) decomposes to acrolein [which] was used as a chemical weapon
(from wiki: Acrolein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

But, neither the author of that thread nor readers have marked that acrolein is prepared industrially by oxidation of propene, which is known as propylene. That is: propene (wich is produced from fossil fuels) -> Propylene oxide (human carcinogen) -> Propylene Glycol (1,2-propanediol, 1.5% of dipropylene glycol and small amounts of other polypropylene glycols)

But, Propylene Glycol can also be converted from glycerol (or glycerin, glycerine), a biodiesel byproduct.

Now, take a look at the PG :

Propylene glycol, obtained in the industry hydration of propylene oxide, is a racemic mixture of the two optical isomers (racemic) - 1,2-propylene glycol and 1,3-propylene glycol.

In the process of oxidation of 1,2-propylene glycol reaction products are: acetone, propionaldehyde, lactic acid, formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, etc. (Пропиленгликоль [Propylene glycol] - yes, it's in russian, but the entire periodic table generally credited to Russian chemist Dmitri Mendeleev in 1869)

Acetone - has a stimulating and narcotic effect, affects the central nervous system, is able to accumulate in the body (Ацетон)

Lactic acid - a) PG is converted to lactic acid in the body and it's this that causes the muscle aches that some may experience from time to time (e-cigs.co.uk) b) Studies have shown that elderly people has an elevated level of salt acid in the brain (Scientists have proposed a new way to assess whether older patient's brain)

Formaldehyde - Category Explosion II B, the explosion group T2. Has a toxicity that adversely affects the genetic material of the reproductive organs, respiratory system, eyes and skin. Has a strong effect on the central nervous system (Формальдегид)

Acetaldehyde - significant part of tobacco smoke. Was demonstrated a synergistic relationship with nicotine, which increases the appearance of dependence, particularly among young people. Acetaldehyde damages DNA and causes abnormal development of muscle-related proteins. Is an air pollutant during smoking and heat treatment of polymers (works atomizers at 250 degrees C?) People who have a genetic deficiency for the enzyme responsible for the conversion of acetaldehyde into acetic acid may have a greater risk of Alzheimer's dise

And, the last.. What do you think about this:

1. According to a 2010 study by Karlstad University, the concentrations of PGEs, propylene glycol and glycol ethers in indoor air, particularly bedroom air, has been linked to increased risk of developing numerous respiratory and immune disorders in children, including asthma, hay fever, eczema, and allergies, with increased risk ranging from 50% to 180%. This concentration has been linked to use of water-based paints and water-based cleansers.

2. Responses may include "hypotension[,] bradycardia... QRS and T abnormalities on the ECG[,] arrhythmia[,] cardiac arrest[,] serum hyperosmolality[,] lactic acidosis[,] and haemolysis".[18]

3. november 2010: Recent findings in a Swedish study strongly suggests a connection between air-concentrations of propylenglycol in houses and development of asthma and allergic reactions as rhinitis, in children. (Choi, Schmidbauer m.fl. ("010): Common Household Chemicals and the Allergy Risks in Pre-School Age Children. PLoS ONE 5(10): e13423, doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0013423.)


So .. I don't know..
I think I'll buy regular cigarettes (but with charcoal filter) for myself ..

 

[jadeite]

Well That was a buzz kill.

 

[Girl4givn]

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified propylene glycol as an additive that is “generally recognized as safe” for use in food. It is used to absorb extra water and maintain moisture in certain medicines, cosmetics, or food products. It is a solvent for food colours and flavours.

On one hand, I have no doubt there may be some risk, but I'm am almost fairly certain that there is less risk than when I was smoking analogs. There is also propylene glycol in cigarettes, along with a ton of other garbage we shouldn't be inhaling.

You know, everything has to be done in moderation. I wouldn't drink a bottle of propylene glycol, but I also wouldn't take a whole bottle of multivitamins at one time. I don't mind being the guinea pig on this one. I feel better, I get up better in the morning, the wheezing has stopped, not coughing up any more phlegm, and unless I'm losing my mind, I think my skin is actually looking better. To me, the proof is in the pudding, and I'm the pudding.

 

[dee5]

No, no, no, no ,no......I wish I had the links to all the info required to back up my answer but I have faith that one of the other vets will come along to help with this. But no, first of all you're talking about oxidation, not vaporization which is what occurs in an e-cig atomizer. Then you talk of "concentrations" of pg but don't say how high of a concentration you are referring to. You are aware that PG is an ingredient in some respiratory treatments aren't you? People with breathing problems have been using this stuff for years, do you think a Dr would prescribe something like that to a patient if it would only make their problem worse? You talk about increased risk for Alzheimers---nicotine is actually being studied as a treatment for Alzheimers! I don't believe that atomizers heat to 280 degree's, I think it's about 1/2 that, so you don't have to worry about the VG. Please, get the facts straight before you go terrifying people! Hey VETS- alittle help over here!!

 

[2LittleCache]

I think this is kinda funny actually. Vaporizers to Analogs is like stubbing your toe to putting a bullet in your head. As for the "unhealthy, poisoned" look of the reviewers, nobody looks good under the lime light of a computer in front of a webcam. You did a pretty good job on your research and I applaud you, but looking at your post all I can think on every line is "Hell it's still better than cancer!"

 

[vapour Dwarf]

The way i see it is that on the cigarettes i was coughing up my lungs but since vaping i don't get any of those problems now so if i can't give up nicotine i would rather take it in a way which makes me feel healthier. I will not go back to how i felt with cigarettes no matter what unless vaping was not an option. Cigarettes are a definate cause of cancer where as vaping there are debates but no certainties, i would rather take the gamble.

 

[IndustrialAction]

Wow great info, too bad you don't have an understanding of the differences between Celsius and Fahrenheit, combustion vs oxidation vs vaporization, or the working temps of an atomizer.

If you really believe that analogs are safer, good luck to you and your future cancer treatments...

 

[Hoosier]

I don't even want to go into how misinformed the OP is.

But I do have this funny vision in my head that the OP discovers that fog machines use the same PG & VG that PV's use and runs screaming from rock concerts and theatre plays when the fog machines are fired up. Then has a cig outside to calm down from the "near death from poisoning" they just escaped.

Sorry if it is wrong to find humor in that, but I do.

 

[IndustrialAction]

I don't even want to go into how misinformed the OP is.

But I do have this funny vision in my head that the OP discovers that fog machines use the same PG & VG that PV's use and runs screaming from rock concerts and theatre plays when the fog machines are fired up. Then has a cig outside to calm down from the "near death from poisoning" they just escaped.

Sorry if it is wrong to find humor in that, but I do.

I think that is the funniest and most appropriate comment anyone could make on the misguided OP.

 

[AlmightyGod]

Wow great info, too bad you don't have an understanding of the differences between Celsius and Fahrenheit, combustion vs oxidation vs vaporization, or the working temps of an atomizer.

If you really believe that analogs are safer, good luck to you and your future cancer treatments...

Right on IA...stupid people...this has been discussed b4...into the ground...totally unfounded.

 

[Elendil]

Every time I see a thread like this I wonder if the person is just now discovering health for the first time. Threads like this and the ones from the anti-diacetyl crowd tend to make me chuckle. It appears that they are going to make the ecig companies personally responsible for their health and well being. I have to ask: How many letters did you write to RJR demanding that they make analogs safer? The truth of the matter is I have a hard time believing many of these people even smoked in the first place. Seems like they are more intent on attacking suppliers and making a lot of noise. They do tend to provide some amusement though, so it's not a completely pointless endeavor.

DISCLAIMER: The above is my personal opinion and not necessarily the opinion of ECF.

 

[markfm]

It's always an educational opportunity -- I get to read about chemical reactions at 600C (yes, 600C) and the really nasty catalysts used to get the reactions at lower temperatures.

 

[jericoriver]

600C, I think in thats about the temp. of my oxy/acyl. torch .

 

[srcowell]

I took my e-cigs to my doctor's office for my physical last month. He LOOOOOVED it! I even took a couple of puffs for his benefit and blew the vapor in his direction. He'd heard about them and loves the idea. He said, "Anything to get you off cigarettes!" I asked about the health hazards of nicotine by itself, without the byproducts of cigarettes, and he shrugged and said, "It's a mild stimulant." That was about it! He even put me down in his records as a non-smoker!

 

[Rosco]

Maybe it's just me, but as of late in particular, it seems that several of these posts that are of the "danger-alert-bad" type are from "OP's with less than 15 posts, and maybe even out of the US.

30 minutes ago I read another out of the US OP slamming a US supplier/vendor about their product, of coarse without ever contacting the vendor first. What's with this type of conduct or actions? Don't you first go and speak with the business/person you dealt with and tell them or discuss your issues? Apparantly not all of us think this way.

Yesterday an OP with tons of posts to their credit slammed a PV of which he has two. He told all of us that they quit working or were not working properly. Do you think this OP went and told the business that makes this PV about this issue? No, he did not,because I contacted the manufacture of the PV in question and they knew nothing and had heard nothing form this person.
You just can't fix stupid for some people. It is terminal.

DISCLAIMER: The above is my personal opinion and not necessarily the opinion of ECF.

 

[Volgot]

Hm, I found this: Tobacco smoke contains many harmful substances (benzpyrene, nitrosamines, carbon monoxide, soot, etc.)

let's see:

soot, carbon monoxide - diesel trucks and cars on the street produces much more than cigarettes
carbon monoxide - a) used for processing meat and fish, give them a bright red color and appearance of freshness, without changing the taste, b) is a major atmospheric pollutant in some urban areas, chiefly from the exhaust of internal combustion engines (including vehicles, portable and back-up generators, lawn mowers, power washers, etc.) - much more than cigarettes
nitrosamines - cured meat, etc (food)
benzpyrene - in automobile exhaust fumes, tonns in charbroiled food (do you love Grilling?..) and in burnt toast (have you toaster?)..


So, it's not about to stop smoking but stop eating cured meat, fried food, grilled food, wok, stop to use your cars, throw your toaster - all of this is 90 % of cancer (and only 10 % is cigarettes)

Otherwise, it's little silly to exchange 10 % of benzpyrene (cigarettes) in daily ration to 110 % extra аcetone, formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, etc...

 

[Kate51]

Here we go..........Volgot, you need to do a bunch more reading, maybe in the Health and Safety threads a bit more...here's a good place to start. Go back into OLD THREADS, much more info available for the curious mind. In your defense, there is no such thing as a dumb question ~ now get to work and find out if your assumption WARNING! This is VERY dangerous! may be a bit premature and something akin to yelling FIRE. You're in the right place on ECF. Now make like a sponge and soak up some facts.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/medical-research/83932-latest-health-nz-study-published.html

People should not just read over this stuff, STUDY IT!! Check out some facts. Look at the tables and graphs until you understand the way an e-cig works. I never once detected formaldehyde in my eliquid, maybe yours is different.
Propylene Glycol is in nearly everything in your bathroom cabinet, check that out: it really isn't a covert poison, and neither is Nicotine. All those other things I daresay is not mentioned in the testing of exhaled PG or VG mist ~ you go prove that wrong now. Go Ahead. Hit the books.
The above study has many links to follow.
E-cigs may be dangerous, now compare to cigarettes. Would a Thousand Times Safer be a good enough improvement in your health, or No?? You decide..we report. Now, after you do everything I suggested, then look at this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_additives_in_cigarettes

Knowledge is Power. And a lot quieter and more comforting than total BS.

 

[Volgot]

I took my e-cigs to my doctor's office for my physical last month. He LOOOOOVED it!

 

[IndustrialAction]

Ok, I'm getting out of this thread before I launch in to some personal attacks and get the mods all pissy.

 

[AlmightyGod]

Ok, I'm getting out of this thread before I launch in to some personal attacks and get the mods all pissy.

Oh come on...I was ready for a rant!

OP...you are one misguided person!