The Flavor Apprentice flavorings

[HeavenNorHell]

Hey, so before I got any flavors I made sure to do some research on the forums and asked in the live chat where a good place to get flavors would be. TFA was among those and I decided to purchase from there because people were saying, despite being a bit more expensive, the flavors are more concentrated then other places. I got blueberry, dragon fruit and pomegranate. So I'm wondering, if I want a strong fruity flavor, and other flavorings would require around 20% to get the flavor I want, should I use 10% of TFA flavors, or even less then that? Around what percentage do you typically use for TFA flavorings?

vape on!

 

[NumberOne]

Id say on average you'd be looking at 10-15% on a fruity flavor by itself. Id recommend starting even lower maybe at 5%, try it, add if you need to. For most fruity TFA i use from 6-15%

 

[NumberOne]

Look at post #156 On this TFA thread
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...10-flavor-apprentice-flavoring-thread-16.html

 

[HeavenNorHell]

Thanks for the link! Ill take a look there

 

[MikenGA]

I'm usually around 15% with flavors from 'TFA', as compared to the 25% to 40% with 'Flavor West'.

 

[HeavenNorHell]

Glad I decided against Flavor West then. Is there PG/VG in TFA flavors? If so, I can't find what percent is flavoring, and what percent is PG/VG. In my 100mg/mL nic, 10% is nic and 90% is PG if I'm understanding it correctly, so I want to make sure my calculations are correct so I can get a 50/50 ratio.

 

[Road_House]

Glad I decided against Flavor West then. Is there PG/VG in TFA flavors? If so, I can't find what percent is flavoring, and what percent is PG/VG. In my 100mg/mL nic, 10% is nic and 90% is PG if I'm understanding it correctly, so I want to make sure my calculations are correct so I can get a 50/50 ratio.

Most TFA flavors are PG.

I wouldn't be concerned over the amounts of non pg or vg ingredients in your nic or flavors. The amount is too small to make a noticeable difference to your ratio. Example:

30 ML finished juice @ 20 mg/ml nic strength would have 6 ml of your 100 mg/ml nic in it. Of that 6 ml only .6 ml is nicotine which is only 2% of the total 30 ml.

All the calculators out there consider your nic base and flavors to be 100% of whichever carrier they are in, be it pg or vg. Many will allow for a split ratio for nic as some vendors will mix to order at whatever ratio of pg/vg you want.

I am more concerned that you have a working understanding of how to cut your 100 mg/ml nic down to the level you want it to be. If you have any doubts at all just ask.

 

[LoveVanilla]

I am more concerned that you have a working understanding of how to cut your 100 mg/ml nic down to the level you want it to be. If you have any doubts at all just ask.

Yes, the 100 mg/ml nic is quite potent and not to be trifled with... Please read and follow ALL safety precautions -- and make sure your space is well ventilated/exhausted. And then wash thoroughly!

 

[Pete54]

New to DIY and using 100mg nic? Not wise my friend. I've been DIYing for two tears and still only buy 48mg nic just for safety's sake. Please be careful and make sure you fully understand the math involved before using it.

 

[HeavenNorHell]

Most TFA flavors are PG.

I wouldn't be concerned over the amounts of non pg or vg ingredients in your nic or flavors. The amount is too small to make a noticeable difference to your ratio. Example:

30 ML finished juice @ 20 mg/ml nic strength would have 6 ml of your 100 mg/ml nic in it. Of that 6 ml only .6 ml is nicotine which is only 2% of the total 30 ml.

All the calculators out there consider your nic base and flavors to be 100% of whichever carrier they are in, be it pg or vg. Many will allow for a split ratio for nic as some vendors will mix to order at whatever ratio of pg/vg you want.

I am more concerned that you have a working understanding of how to cut your 100 mg/ml nic down to the level you want it to be. If you have any doubts at all just ask.

Ah that makes sense. And I was planning on prediluting the nic when I get it to 50mg/mL. I've had some experience in chemicals and will be sure to follow all precautions. Thanks for the concern

New to DIY and using 100mg nic? Not wise my friend. I've been DIYing for two tears and still only buy 48mg nic just for safety's sake. Please be careful and make sure you fully understand the math involved before using it.

Maybe it would make more sense to cut my nic down to 48mg instead of 50mg since I'll be making 24mg liquid?

 

[Road_House]

Maybe it would make more sense to cut my nic down to 48mg instead of 50mg since I'll be making 24mg liquid?

That would be good, then you would just need to divide your total by half to know how much nic base to use for your mixes.

Cut it with VG though, or you'll never make your 50/50 target after adding flavors if they are pg based and your nic base is also all pg.

 

[HeavenNorHell]

Okay, so if I want to cut it down to 48mg, and its 100mg now, and I have 120mL of nic, I should add 130mL of VG? Is my math right there?

I'm not sure, but I think it would be smarter to just make the nic 50/50 to begin with. So if I diluted as stated above, I would now have 250mL of 48mg nic, and since only 4.8%(12mL) is nic, I should aim for 119mL of both PG/VG in the mix to make a total of 138mL + 12mL nic. Since 90% of the original 120mL bottle is PG, thats 108mL of PG in the mix already, so add 11mL of PG and 119mL of VG, and I now have my 48mg nic 50/50, right?

 

[fogging_katrider]

Glad I decided against Flavor West then. Is there PG/VG in TFA flavors? If so, I can't find what percent is flavoring, and what percent is PG/VG. In my 100mg/mL nic, 10% is nic and 90% is PG if I'm understanding it correctly, so I want to make sure my calculations are correct so I can get a 50/50 ratio.

No. If I read you clearly what you have now is a 120ml bottle of PG which contains 10% nicotine (100 mg per ml)

Okay, so if I want to cut it down to 48mg, and its 100mg now, and I have 120mL of nic, I should add 130mL of VG? Is my math right there?

Yes. adding 130 ml of zero nicotine to your 120ml of 100mg nic pg will result in 250ml of base containing 48mg per ml.

I'm not sure, but I think it would be smarter to just make the nic 50/50 to begin with. So if I diluted as stated above, I would now have 250mL of 48mg nic, and since only 4.8%(12mL) is nic, I should aim for 119mL of both PG/VG in the mix to make a total of 138mL + 12mL nic. Since 90% of the original 120mL bottle is PG, thats 108mL of PG in the mix already, so add 11mL of PG and 119mL of VG, and I now have my 48mg nic 50/50, right?

Well...no...
To end up with 250 ml of 50%PG x 50%VG x 48mg nicotine base solution you would have to add 5ml of plain pg and 125ml of plain vg

This 48mg base you would plug into an e-juice calculator to be further diluted with your flavorings plus more pg and/or vg to arrive at your target mg strength for vaping and you would also use the mixing calculator to give you your target pg/vg ratio. The pg/vg ratio is arrived at based on how much flavorings are in your mix (usually flavorings are in a pg carrier but not always) and thus the final pg/vg ratio adjustment can usually be made in the amounts of plain pg and vg that gets added into the calculated final mix.

I would suggest using one of the calculators at Do It Yourself E-Liquid (E-Juice) Recipe Mixing Station! which are very accurate for safely calculating your target nicotine strength as well as your target pg/vg ratio adjustment.

There are several other great calculators out there you can download for use offline as well as some online like the ecigvape ones.
One very popular calc program is the "e-juice me up" program. Several others are spreadsheet based and also work quite well.


semi off topic rant....
The one calculator I would NOT trust UNTIL THEY FIX IT.... is the one at diyrecipebook dot com as its pg/vg ratio is waaayyyy off especially if you try to adjuast the target ratio using the slider bar on their calculator. It's all over the place and seldom correct ime. I'm sorry I have to mention it online, but I havent seen them fixing it yet so perhaps when more people are aware they might wake up and finally fix it. Their site itself is really very nice as a recipe book goes, its just a bummer that its calc is broken at this point in time. otherwise i do love everything else about it fwiw.

hth, good luck and happy vaping

 

[savagemann]

When I started mixing, I was buying base liquid in 50/50.
I also had 100mg nic in a 50/50 solution as well.
I always aimed for 50/50 in my mixed juices.
So the system I used was pretty easy and quick.
Whatever amount of flavoring I used, I would add that much plain vg as well.
Then add my 50/50nic, and 50/50 base and be done.

Now a days, I'm using pg nic, in 100mg.
The reason I use pg nic, is I feel it is easier/safer/faster to suck up into a syringe.

Ever try drawing vg into a syringe with a small needle tip?
It takes forever, and when you squeeze it out, it builds up a lot of pressure in the syringe.
This makes mixing take longer, because it takes such a long time to push the vg out of a small syringe tip.

Some may say to use a larger syringe tip. Well, there is a good reason I don't.
Any tip big enough to flow vg well, holds quite a bit more volume, and your nic ratio will be higher.

Some may say don't use a syringe tip at all. Well, that means I'm going to have nic all over my syringe from dipping it into the bottle, which means much more cleanup and more chance I could get nic on myself.
It's much easier to clean a small syringe tip as well.

The reason this is of concern to me is I had a syringe tip explode off from being under pressure.
Luckily it was non nic base, but the stuff got all over me. Even in my face and eyes.
Imagine if it had been 100mg nic.
It was a non lure lock syringe, but the tip was on tight.

This brings up my next topic.
Any syringe I use for moving nic HAS to be lure lock, for the reasons stated above.

So the system I use now is pretty quick and easy.
Whatever amount of pg based products I put in, I put the same exact volume of plain vg in.
Remainder of the volume is my 50/50 mix.

100mg pg nic
Pre mixed 50/50pg-vg
Pg and or alcohol based flavoring
Plain Vg.

Lets say I am mixing a 30ml bottle.
Target nic is 10mg.
Target flavor is 10%
I put 3ml of my 100mg pg nic.
3ml of my flavoring
6ml plain vg
18ml of my 50/50 mix.
Shake well and done.

Hope some of this helps.

 

[HeavenNorHell]

No. If I read you clearly what you have now is a 120ml bottle of PG which contains 10% nicotine (100 mg per ml)



Yes. adding 130 ml of zero nicotine to your 120ml of 100mg nic pg will result in 250ml of base containing 48mg per ml.



Well...no...
To end up with 250 ml of 50%PG x 50%VG x 48mg nicotine base solution you would have to add 5ml of plain pg and 125ml of plain vg

This 48mg base you would plug into an e-juice calculator to be further diluted with your flavorings plus more pg and/or vg to arrive at your target mg strength for vaping and you would also use the mixing calculator to give you your target pg/vg ratio. The pg/vg ratio is arrived at based on how much flavorings are in your mix (usually flavorings are in a pg carrier but not always) and thus the final pg/vg ratio adjustment can usually be made in the amounts of plain pg and vg that gets added into the calculated final mix.

I would suggest using one of the calculators at Do It Yourself E-Liquid (E-Juice) Recipe Mixing Station! which are very accurate for safely calculating your target nicotine strength as well as your target pg/vg ratio adjustment.

There are several other great calculators out there you can download for use offline as well as some online like the ecigvape ones.
One very popular calc program is the "e-juice me up" program. Several others are spreadsheet based and also work quite well.


semi off topic rant....
The one calculator I would NOT trust UNTIL THEY FIX IT.... is the one at diyrecipebook dot com as its pg/vg ratio is waaayyyy off especially if you try to adjuast the target ratio using the slider bar on their calculator. It's all over the place and seldom correct ime. I'm sorry I have to mention it online, but I havent seen them fixing it yet so perhaps when more people are aware they might wake up and finally fix it. Their site itself is really very nice as a recipe book goes, its just a bummer that its calc is broken at this point in time. otherwise i do love everything else about it fwiw.

hth, good luck and happy vaping

Well that wouldn't be 120mL of PG then would it? If its a 120mL bottle with 10% nic, it cant possibly be 120mL of PG?

Okay glad I did that right.

I downloaded eJuice me up, just haven't tried plugging all this in just yet.

When I started mixing, I was buying base liquid in 50/50.
I also had 100mg nic in a 50/50 solution as well.
I always aimed for 50/50 in my mixed juices.
So the system I used was pretty easy and quick.
Whatever amount of flavoring I used, I would add that much plain vg as well.
Then add my 50/50nic, and 50/50 base and be done.

Now a days, I'm using pg nic, in 100mg.
The reason I use pg nic, is I feel it is easier/safer/faster to suck up into a syringe.

Ever try drawing vg into a syringe with a small needle tip?
It takes forever, and when you squeeze it out, it builds up a lot of pressure in the syringe.
This makes mixing take longer, because it takes such a long time to push the vg out of a small syringe tip.

Some may say to use a larger syringe tip. Well, there is a good reason I don't.
Any tip big enough to flow vg well, holds quite a bit more volume, and your nic ratio will be higher.

Some may say don't use a syringe tip at all. Well, that means I'm going to have nic all over my syringe from dipping it into the bottle, which means much more cleanup and more chance I could get nic on myself.
It's much easier to clean a small syringe tip as well.

The reason this is of concern to me is I had a syringe tip explode off from being under pressure.
Luckily it was non nic base, but the stuff got all over me. Even in my face and eyes.
Imagine if it had been 100mg nic.
It was a non lure lock syringe, but the tip was on tight.

This brings up my next topic.
Any syringe I use for moving nic HAS to be lure lock, for the reasons stated above.

So the system I use now is pretty quick and easy.
Whatever amount of pg based products I put in, I put the same exact volume of plain vg in.
Remainder of the volume is my 50/50 mix.

100mg pg nic
Pre mixed 50/50pg-vg
Pg and or alcohol based flavoring
Plain Vg.

Lets say I am mixing a 30ml bottle.
Target nic is 10ml.
Target flavor is 10%
I put 3ml of my 100mg pg nic.
3ml of my flavoring
6ml plain vg
18ml of my 50/50 mix.
Shake well and done.

Hope some of this helps.

This helps a lot actually, thanks.