Tesla Nano 120W Steampunk - Battery advice

[Jack Daniels]

Hi,
I ordered a "Tesla Nano 120W Steampunk" and now I'm in a hunt for appropriate 18650 batteries for it.
In the mod requirements it says "Hi-res 18650 cell (discharge current should be above 30A)"
I was thinking to order LG HG2 but it's rated to 20A so I guess it's not going to work well. Also I saw a lot of complains about using this batteries in this mod with higher wattage, so HG2 is out of the question apparently.

In the "Mooch's blog" battery testing table I saw these batteries, rated for 30A (If I understand correctly the table)
LG HB4 18650 1500mAh 30A Battery
Sony VTC4 18650 2100mAh 30A Battery
The Sony seems to have more juice, but I have no idea if this is the case indeed.

Can you please give me an advice which battery is appropriate for the mod in order not to get "low battery" warning at 40%?
I'm going to use the mod at 80W at most. Nothing too fancy with the tanks and coils.
I prefer Sony, LG, Samsung.

I'll appreciate any help and advice's.
Thanks.

 

[bombastinator]

I hate the whole wattage inflation thing. Yes those batteries will work for you. They aren’t higher juice though, just higher drain. The batteries that produce more juice per sec have less total juice in them.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Any of the name brand 3000mah 15/20a cells will work fine for your intended max watt range.
Samsung 30Q
Lg Hg2
Sony vtc6

Each of the above will support 45 - 60 w per cell. The Tesla 120w uses 2, so using an 80w max you'll be fine.

 

[Jack Daniels]

So 30amps requirement of Tesla is just for 100-120W usage?

 

[bombastinator]

So 30amps requirement of Tesla is just for 100-120W usage?

Remember batteries lose charge as they drain. A half full battery doesn’t produce as much juice as a full one. VV mods have a joule thief circuit in them to boost the voltage when the juice gets low but it drains the battery very very quickly. I suspect you will do better with batteries @Topwater Elvis mentioned. I could be wrong, and it’s handy to have a spare set to change out so I suppose you could try a set of 30s and a set of 20s and see which ones last longer.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Mooch explains in simple terms how to calculate battery amp drain using a regulated device here---> Calculating battery current draw for a regulated mod | E-Cigarette Forum

No the 30a requirement is a CYA statement.
Point being, all things equal higher mah = more runtime, as long as the cells used have a sufficient CDR to support the power range you use.

80w / 2 cells = 40w each.
40w / 3v = 13.3a
3v being an example of the low voltage cut off, my nano 120 always hit the low voltage cut off between 3.15v ~ 3.24v using authentic name brand cells.

When purchasing batteries always/only buy from reputable sources.
I get all mine from ---> Batteries and Chargers

 

[stols001]

I run mine using the Samsung 25s which do test at lower specs than that. To be fair, I use tiny wattages on mine, I am a MTL vaper. You are not *required* to use very highly rated batteries unless you plan to vape very high wattages. The higher the wattage, the higher rated battery you will want/need, but if you plan on lower wattages, using a battery that has more mAh (runtime) can actually work out better. So you should probably figure out what wattage is going to be your "sort of usual" before you decide which cells you buy, as long as you can do so safely with batteries you have, and then go from there depending on your wattage needs. That will help tell you what type of and what rated batteries are going to work best for you.

I have fired at 120 (once, by accident, the steampunk will roll around backwards from 7 watts, lowest setting, to 120) I found that out by accidentally hitting the "lower wattage limit" while priming a coil. It hit 120 without blowing up with the Samsungs I have (and fried a coil) but were I to vape anywhere near that limit, I would probably buy different batteries, but it certainly fired just fine.

Best of luck deciding.

Anna

 

[Jack Daniels]

3v being an example of the low voltage cut off, my nano 120 always hit the low voltage cut off between 3.15v ~ 3.24v.

Which battery you use?

 

[Topwater Elvis]

I've used all of them, like I said;
Any of the authentic name brand 3000mah 15/20a cells will work fine for your intended max watt range.
You stated 80w at most...
Samsung 30Q
Lg Hg2
Sony vtc6

If for some reason you're not comfortable with those suggestions the Sony vtc5A (must be 'A') is a good blend of CDR & mah at 25a & 2500mah.

 

[Oomee]

I hate the whole wattage inflation thing. Yes those batteries will work for you. They aren’t higher juice though, just higher drain. The batteries that produce more juice per sec have less total juice in them.

The Sony batter has higher capacity @ 2100mAh, so it is "higher" juice as the OP asks.

Any of the name brand 3000mah 15/20a cells will work fine for your intended max watt range.
Samsung 30Q
Lg Hg2
Sony vtc6

Each of the above will support 45 - 60 w per cell. The Tesla 120w uses 2, so using an 80w max you'll be fine.

Er, no, that is a good way for a battery 'incident' should the mod malfunction. You see the mod design spec will have protection at the limit of the spec and thus the batteries MUST meet that spec. A fault will pay no respect to what you set the power at.

Remember batteries lose charge as they drain. A half full battery doesn’t produce as much juice as a full one. VV mods have a joule thief circuit in them to boost the voltage when the juice gets low but it drains the battery very very quickly. I suspect you will do better with batteries @Topwater Elvis mentioned. I could be wrong, and it’s handy to have a spare set to change out so I suppose you could try a set of 30s and a set of 20s and see which ones last longer.

That's a boost converter, a joule thief is something else.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Good advice so far. Be advised though that there is no such animal as an 18650 with a safe constant discharge rate over 30 amps.

Any battery seller claiming otherwise is lying dangerously.

 

[Jack Daniels]

Okay, so far so good. I almost understand what are you guys talking about
This is my first mod without integrated internal batteries, that's why I'm asking stupid questions.

For now my prime choice is Sony VTC5A.

Now another stupid question - what is the difference between two single batteries and one dual battery? Isn't it the same? I don't get it.

 

[stols001]

If you are talking about single battery setups vs. dual battery ones, then a dual battery setup will offer either higher specs (if it's running in parallel mode, which most of them do if I understand things correctly) or if in series mode (using one battery after the other) the same specs as it uses/drains one battery after another.

Most regulated mods run in parallel mode I think, meaning you will be combining the specs of both batteries, so you will be able to draw higher wattage and the batteries will drain together, fall together, and share runtime together. So, you are getting the ability to run higher wattages without danger.

A single battery mod is just that: single. So your specs are your specs, for one battery, period.

I hope I'm saying all this correctly, but if not, someone will arrive to correct me, I'm quite sure.

Anna

 

[Jack Daniels]

If you are talking about single battery setups vs. dual battery ones, then a dual battery setup will offer either higher specs (if it's running in parallel mode, which most of them do if I understand things correctly) or if in series mode (using one battery after the other) the same specs as it uses/drains one battery after another.

Most regulated mods run in parallel mode I think, meaning you will be combining the specs of both batteries, so you will be able to draw higher wattage and the batteries will drain together, fall together, and share runtime together. So, you are getting the ability to run higher wattages without danger.

A single battery mod is just that: single. So your specs are your specs, for one battery, period.

I hope I'm saying all this correctly, but if not, someone will arrive to correct me, I'm quite sure.

Anna

I meant the batteries offers. When I purchase in a website, there are two choices for the battery - single or dual battery. My guess is that it's something package related (box for two battery instead of one).

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Mooch explains in simple terms how to calculate battery amp drain using a regulated device here---> Calculating battery current draw for a regulated mod | E-Cigarette Forum

No the 30a requirement is a CYA statement.
Point being, all things equal higher mah = more runtime, as long as the cells used have a sufficient CDR to support the power range you use.

80w / 2 cells = 40w each.
40w / 3v = 13.3a
3v being an example of the low voltage cut off, my nano 120 always hit the low voltage cut off between 3.15v ~ 3.24v using authentic name brand cells.

When purchasing batteries always/only buy from reputable sources.
I get all mine from ---> Batteries and Chargers

Er, no, that is a good way for a battery 'incident' should the mod malfunction. You see the mod design spec will have protection at the limit of the spec and thus the batteries MUST meet that spec. A fault will pay no respect to what you set the power at.
.

Er, yes, if you read & understand what Mooch wrote.

All regulated power device's have input amp limits (from batteries to 'chip') and output amp limits
( from 'chip' to delivery device).
The output amp limit is always higher than the input due to dc-dc converters & buck/boost circuitry providing the power to the delivery device, not the batteries.
They also have external & internal short circuit protections, sure if everything fails all at once a cell venting might occur. The chance of that happening is about the same as with any other battery powered device on the planet.

Using a regulated power device battery amp demand will be highest just before & at the low voltage cutoff.

So, if the OP were to use 120w drawing from 2 cells drained to 3v each ~ 6v which the OP's device will never do, more like 3.2 - 3.4v each.
120w / 6v = 20a + 10% device inefficiency = 22a from 2 cells.
More realistically,
120w / 6.4v = 18.75a = 10% = 20.6a

Cell configuration in a regulated power device makes no difference on battery amp demand.

 

[stols001]

If you mean purchasing, then I'd guess yes. IDK about the battery boxes, they're slightly different with each vendor. I have never received a "single" battery box with my batteries, they just come with a double box, but I use IMRbatteries.com, so some of the other approved vendors might do it that way.

IDK if some battery makers are so extraordinarily responsible that they'd want to make sure you got "dual" cells from the same batch or something so they're better off married or what. I suppose such awesomeness in the universe could exist?

I've never been asked about dual or single but for the most part I buy my batteries in even numbers. Can't really be of help there.... I would suggest if you are pairing your batteries you keep them married and keep track of it somehow akin to a wedding ring (or draw some odd symbol on there in permanent marker if you are not pro-marriage) and keep them together, charge them together, let them do everything together until the day they die.

I'm starting to feel this post is actually beginning to sound anti-marriage (between humans) so I will ah, stop there.

Anna

 

[Oomee]

Er, yes, if you read & understand what Mooch wrote.

All regulated power device's have input amp limits (from batteries to 'chip') and output amp limits
( from 'chip' to delivery device).
The output amp limit is always higher than the input due to dc-dc converters & buck/boost circuitry providing the power to the delivery device, not the batteries.
They also have external & internal short circuit protections, sure if everything fails all at once a cell venting might occur. The chance of that happening is about the same as with any other battery powered device on the planet.

Using a regulated power device battery amp demand will be highest just before & at the low voltage cutoff.

So, if the OP were to use 120w drawing from 2 cells drained to 3v each ~ 6v which the OP's device will never do, more like 3.2 - 3.4v each.
120w / 6v = 20a + 10% device inefficiency = 22a from 2 cells.
More realistically,
120w / 6.4v = 18.75a = 10% = 20.6a

Cell configuration in a regulated power device makes no difference on battery amp demand.

OK then, can you tell me what value of PTC/fuse is within the device in question?

 

[Topwater Elvis]

OK then, can you tell me what value of PTC/fuse is within the device in question?

Well, Tesla makes no statement that I have found on the input amp limit, the output amp limit is stated as 35a.
The input amp limit of the three I've owned varied between 20.265a ~ 23.405a before they started 'throttling' back, using calibrated & certified equipment.
Their claimed output I found accurate, enough, 34.15 ~ 35.605a.

It goes without saying, the above only goes for the 3 units tested, if the manufacturer doesn't release the input amp limit I certainly am not.

 

[bombastinator]

That's a boost converter, a joule thief is something else.

I thought a boost converter was part of a joule thief. Doesn’t matter though I guess.
Boost converter - Wikipedia

 

[Oomee]

I thought a boost converter was part of a joule thief. Doesn’t matter though I guess.
Boost converter - Wikipedia

Indeed they share common functions, but are still dissimilar when it comes down to it.
A joule thief will sit there soaking all it can from the battery at a very low level, then pulse what it can out.
A boost converter will not sit there at low level, it will raise the current drain on the battery in order to achieve the target output level.

It is a difference, and TBH your post shows you have gained an understanding of electronics that most never get near.