Sticky Mucous

[dedmonwakin]

Well, I've been vaping well over a year and a half. I've noticed a continual problem of excessive amounts of sticky clear or discolored mucous in my throat and lungs that doesn't want to come out, which I can only assume is a mixture of my own mucous and collected PG/VG/PEG. This actually began 6 months into vaping, but I wrote it off as being my lungs trying to finally rid itself of all the crud it gathered from over 14 years of smoking. I generally go through 80-100ml of nic juice a month....maybe less and my preferred strength is 24mg nic.

Now, every few weeks to a month beyond the first time noticing this occurrence I've developed something similar to a chronic bronchial infection. Well, actually, lets call it just that. The mucous is no longer clear and certainly something awful to see when I finally can get some coughed up. Seems to be all the symptoms of a bronchial infection, but frequent which is something that didn't happen when I did smoke.

I can only come to this conclusion that my lungs are drowning in eliquid. I've switched up from PG the first 2 times it happened to VG then to PEG. When I made the switch to VG, it was a while before it happened again, but sure enough....it happened. Same unusual process of some sticky sticky stuff. Then the discoloration, shortness of breath, with a sickly sweetness when coughing it up...if it does come up. An occasionally I can feel quite lethargic during this.

I suppose the most logical solution to this is to just quit altogether. I find this to be an unusual thing that I'm putting myself through and the only surefire way of knowing that these symptoms are associated with Ecig'in is to stop and see if it comes back. At this point it's obvious to me that my ecig habits are the cause of this, but at the same time, I don't want to give it up if I don't have to.

Anyone suffering through these symptoms, especially for the veteran vapors?

 

[kpax]

Dedmonwakin;

Thanks for posting your experience. I have been vaping for 3 mos and have experienced various serious issues. Things have calmed down now but I am concerned about long term as things still aren't perfect.

During my search of the health boards I have found that YES what you are experiencing is true for many veteran vapers. Here is quote from poster with 5,000+ posts and I believe he had to switch to snus for similar reasons as yourself. He also did a lot of research and was very active on boards.

If you do a search on keywords; phlegm, VG, mucous, etc. you will see many threads. I appreciate your candor as I am in the same boat as you; don't want to give it up, don't know what to do. Will have to if I keep experiencing symptoms, then probably back to cigs. One GOOD thing is when I had vaping problems and started smoking again it took over 10 cigs a day before I was coughing in the am. Also only for a few minutes vs 20 minutes coughing when I was at a pack and a half a day. It took a 24 yr habit to get to that point BTW. Don't ask me how I have alluded problems this long, but except for a few sinus infections, nothing.

I would probably be OK with 5 analogs a day based on my experiment. That's just me. Preferrably none but I am addicted. NOT suggesting you go back to analogs just an observation as you are stating more concerning symptoms then what you said you had when you smoked (just like I have) Very frustrating. There is so much good about vaping; but this other stuff, I don't know....some of it feels worse to me.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-e-smoking/61205-does-vaping-cause-phlegm-2.html

YES. It does. And it worsens the longer a person e-smokes. New research, not yet released, is showing phlegm might be the most significant danger of e-smoking. And it results from both PG and VG. No difference.

A film is apparently building in veteran e-smokers' lungs, causing an increased phlegm secretion. I'm experiencing it, as are others in tests lasting longer than a year. It's a serious concern and a nicotine carrier other than PG or VG is being sought.

Any cursory reading of PG's effects will show that it is an irritant. That's proving to be the case when inhaled 300 or more times a day by e-smokers. We were guinea pigs, and now some results are becoming known

 

[TigertailzBezerk]

Ive been vaping for 9 months and have experienced this, I thought it was my vaping but have come to the conclusion that it was just my chronic colds etc... that I get often, I quit vaping for a month and a half by using snus and it did not make the slightest difference as the mucus did continue during that period.

 

[BlackMetalBuick]

Not cool. I've been thinking about this since I've started vaping. The base liquids, regardless of the mix, are a pretty thick substance. They get vaporized but upon cooling off, they likely have the ability to collect again as a film. Not a nice thought to picture that in your lungs. I know I know, every argument against vaping is met with "well we used to smoke cigarettes and didn't worry about that". Well, I did worry about that, hence trying to quit. I've quit cold turkey before and usually break down and buy a pack a few months later when I find myself in a stressful situation. This time I decided to give vaping a try, and I'm not completely sure if I just won't put my kit up for sale before I even get around to making more juice purchases or looking at other hardware. Sure, analogs were worse no question, but I quit to try to be healthier, not just find out that effects from some other device are going to hit me in a few years too.

 

[jamie]

I asked some questions a while back about the TropicalBob post quoted by kpax ("film is apparently building in veteran e-smokers' lungs, causing an increased phlegm secretion") and understood that the phlegm is more likely drip from the sinuses, not from the lungs. (And BTW, the last mention on the board from TB that I can see, he was still using ecigs for his hand to mouth habit.) In my own experience, the phlegm problem seems to be flavoring related to a significant degree. There is a thread about RY4 in particular causing this for some.

My personal read is that it's an overstatement to say "many veteran vapers" experience this problem.

So far as the extreme problem the OP is having, there may well be others afflicted but the only other similar report I've seen was from someone who did turn out to have an actual infection that needed actual antibiotics and then the problem went away.

 

[rothenbj]

Well Black, you used to smoke cigarettes and didn't worry about that. Sorry, I just couldn't resist. Hey, I started on this journey about a year and a half ago. 43 year, 2-3 pack a day at the end. Hard core you may say. I vaped pretty steady for seven months taking a few hits whenever I wanted a smoke until I really needed one and kept consumption of smokes to a half dozen per day. Maybe 2ml of liquid on a bad day.

About 10 months ago I sound Swedish snus and it killed my cig habit completely. I average 4 or 5 portions a day and vape fairly irregularly, a puff here and there when out at a bar, for instance.

I'm still generating some phlegm. I know it's from the vapor and snus. Or perhaps, just maybe, from decades of lung abuse. Never really had any symptoms when I was smoking other than an occasional cough until they added the FSC to cigs. Then I coughed a lot and started wheezing. Those symptoms went away in two weeks after I started vaping.

I really think a lot of this mucous stuff has to do with we've already done to our lungs. I just hope they clean up before any major damage shows itself. I know my senses have improved tremendously. There's no way at this point to tell the effects of long term vaping but remember, cigarettes had a lot of stuff added to them and we don't really know what was in them and still smoked. Had to say that again.

If you really are concerned, do as I have read from others- plan an exit strategy.

 

[Wench]

I started having a bit of issue myself. It mostly started when I got the LR atty's.
I noticed how much I vaped skyrocketed from 2 1/2-3ml a day with a standard atty to 4-5ml with a lr510, and 5-6 1/2ml a day with a lr306.

I've since swapped back to regular atty's and it's getting better since the juice amount has went back down. I've definitely seen a correlation between the 2 at least for me between the phlegm and increased juice.

I'm trying to also get out of vaping as much hopefully keeping to 1 - 1 1/2ml or less a day, I really hope it clears it up all the way as if I can't vape I know I'd be back on cig's in a minute.

 

[shanagan]

I've been trying to switch to a more cigar type puff rather than an analog inhale. It's easy to forget, but I'm trying. I figure I'm still getting the nicotine and hand-to-mouth, but hopefully breaking yet one more facet of the habit as well as minimizing what's going into my lungs.

I've also noticed that my lung function doesn't appear to have increased at all, and frequently feel short of breath at night, which didn't happen when I smoked. (Ironically, I never coughed/wheezed/anything while I was a smoker, and definitely do not feel "better" in any way now that I've been vaping exclusively for almost five months.)

Good luck to you.

 

[ACM]

My lungs do feel better, but I have more of a sensation of mucus in my throat than when I was smoking. I don't often hack up anything, though. Weird.

 

[jj2]

I had (have) problems with this. I have to get a check up every six months for refills and have my doctor listen to the lungs (he'd probably do it anyway), but they are always clear.
Even had them x-rayed about six months ago and they are fine. I go for of it's a bronchial thing and it use to be worse when I was smoking. Now I live with it, before I was using Advair and an inhaler.

 

[ella]

This was discussed a while back and several of us concluded that whenever we went over 20% VG in a mix we experienced this in a more distinct way. I like VG but I think using 15-20% is best for me.

 

[Stubby]

My suggestion for the OP is to try switching to Swedish snus for a few months and see if things clear up. No one knows enough about the long term use of PG/VG to make any definitive statements as far as health goes. It could be (and just guessing) that some people do have long term reactions.

If things clear up after switching to a smokeless tobacco product then PV's may not be for you. Another way to approach it is to not inhale. It's been shown that most of the nicotine in PV's are absorbed via the mucus membrane (the mouth) and not in the lungs. If you use it like most people use a cigar or pipe, that is not inhaling, that may be a way to avoid most of the problems.

 

[Ragman]

Ive been experiencing something similar but it doesnt seem to be in the lungs. Its mainly nasal. Seems like Ive had a cold for going on 2 months now but I rarely, sneeze or cough. Just every night and sometimes during the day, my nose is stuffy. Not running or anything just feels stuffed up. Thought I had a sinus infection so I took antibiotics for a week and that did nothing. I may have to quit vaping if this doesnt stop. Its amazing how upset I get just thinking about having to quit. I cant go back to analogs.

 

[shanagan]

Ive been experiencing something similar but it doesnt seem to be in the lungs. Its mainly nasal. Seems like Ive had a cold for going on 2 months now but I rarely, sneeze or cough. Just every night and sometimes during the day, my nose is stuffy. Not running or anything just feels stuffed up. Thought I had a sinus infection so I took antibiotics for a week and that did nothing. I may have to quit vaping if this doesnt stop. Its amazing how upset I get just thinking about having to quit. I cant go back to analogs.

Then do NOT go back to analogs. Pick up some nic gum, a huge bag of lollipops, cinnamon sticks or candy sticks (remember these?) or Snus. Or all of the above. You've already broken the analog habit, there's NO reason to go back to it - you already know for sure that alternatives are possible.

 

[Stubby]

Then do NOT go back to analogs. Pick up some nic gum, a huge bag of lollipops, cinnamon sticks or candy sticks (remember these?) or Snus. Or all of the above. You've already broken the analog habit, there's NO reason to go back to it - you already know for sure that alternatives are possible.

That's right. The choices are not just vaping or cigarettes. There are other harm reduced products that are every bit as safe as PV's. Swedish snus, dissolvables, especially star scientific stonewalls and ariva, have shown to be order of magnitudes less harmful then smoking. The more you expand your choices the better chance you have of staying off smokes.

 

[Krythis]

I've vapped for just under two years now, exclusively for the past 11 months. I've been making my own juice for about 9-10 months. I only use ~3% flavoring(LorAnn), USP grade PG, US made PG base Nicotine juice, and Rite Aide brand VG. I tend to stick to 18mg nicotine and vape 3-5ml a day. I have asthma but only really have symptoms when I smoke analogs or vape strong(24mg) juice.

I've experienced some thicker mucus as described by the OP, but not to the point where I'm very concerned. I try to keep my flavoring as low and as clear as possible. I recently picked up some Now Foods(organic foods company) VG which I must say is a hell of lot better than the generic Rite Aide USP VG I've been using. The smell of the VG itself is more pleasant, taste of the ejuice is cleaner, and I'm hoping overall healthier for me.

 

[tdh]

Thanks to everyone who reported these symptoms.

I have only occasionally had increased or thicker mucus and it has allays been associated with particular flavors or, once, a particular bottle of VG (it was USP certified and said "food grade" on the bottle). For the last several months, I have stuck with unflavored 20-30%VG juice, I haven't had the slightest problems.

For those that do have mucus problems that seem like they come from vaping, Do any of you have similar reactions to breathing a lot of steam? If you don't, would you be interested in switching to water based fluids? Water based fluids would definitely be less convenient, but if they would allow you to continue vaping without these symptoms, would you give it shot?

Edit: Water could actually be far more dangerous than PG/VG. I don't mean to suggest that anyone should go out and switch to a water PV now.

 

[Lauralie]

I have noticed in the last three weeks that I have a thick mucuos in the back of my throat and have to clear my throat quite frequently. No productivity from it and don't feel congested of anything, just that annoying "frog in my throat". Now after reading through this thread I started thinking - I have ordered several triple flavor juices lately and they are all flavored fruity ones - I am wondering if that could be it? I have been vaping since August (few analogs at work) and have not had this issue until now.......hmmmm! So my question to tdh or anyone - what is unflavored 20-30% VG juice????

 

[ella]

I've pretty much solved any mucous-type problems I've experienced in the past with the addition of a good humidifier in my bedroom. It really has made a big difference!

 

[Lauralie]

One day with no VG and sticky stuff already better. Darnit - I like the vapor of it.