Smoking ban on Naval subs

[Yankee802]

For ANYONE who knows a sailor who serves on subs (or any service member for that matter), do them a favor and let them know about e-cigs!!

Imagine going cold turkey with a bunch of others (also jonesing/feening) in a confined space underwater, and imagine the stress. We MUST help them!!

Maybe we could find a way to make cheap PVs (like the 3 minute lighter, or madvapes's flashlight) in mass quanities to give out to our service members.

Thoughts?

I wonder how much we could get the disposable units for in large quanities? Currently $8ea at HC, maybe $2-4 in numbers of 500-1000?

 

[rick360]

Submariners are volunteers.
I think they know going in about not smoking.

 

[VictoryNotVengence]

a few months ago a guy posted how he got fired for vaping on a sub.

 

[Yankee802]

Currently, in certain areas on a Naval sub, and when the smoking lamp is lit, smoking is allowed, so I'm not sure what you guys are talking about.

 

[Mac]

I wonder how much we could get the disposable units for in large quanities? Currently $8ea at HC, maybe $2-4 in numbers of 500-1000?

think $6-7 and you will need liquid to go with it. The prefills are awful.

 

[Kate51]

Uncle Sam's big bad thumb must be pure brown by now from snuffing out all those smokes!
I'm starting to think he is one mean SOB!!

 

[UntamedRose]

a few months ago a guy posted how he got fired for vaping on a sub.

Cripple...the chances of that being the real story is pretty much 0%

Problem with smoking on subs is the air is recycled, be like smoking on a plane that only comes up for air once a month. non smokers should have some rights.

I know for a fact that there are sailors on surface ships vaping, specific example my husband's Captain is encouraging smokers to switch and has approved vaping in nonsmoking spaces"rooms" He even put out a flier on it (which is how i started out with a Blu)

 

[Yankee802]

Oh? Don't suppose you'd care to name the captain or the ship? Might help me if I can get to the CNO. (I have a friend at Fleet Personnel Readiness)

 

[aldreis]

Currently, in certain areas on a Naval sub, and when the smoking lamp is lit, smoking is allowed, so I'm not sure what you guys are talking about.

I saw this yesterday, on my AP Newswire:

Date: 9/4/2010 15:31

BC-TFK-submarine-smoking/500
BC-TFK-submarine-smoking

To: NATIONAL EDITORS

Contact: Marie Cocco of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, +1-202-296-5469

Statement of Matthew L. Myers, President, Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids

WASHINGTON, April 9 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- We applaud the U.S. Navy for acting to protect sailors' health by adopting a new policy that bans smoking below decks aboard all Navy submarines. This policy recognizes that secondhand smoke is a serious, scientifically proven threat to human health, and no one should be exposed to it in the workplace, including the men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces. This policy will improve the health of all sailors aboard submarines and sends a powerful message that all workplaces should be smoke-free.

The Navy has also taken another important and necessary step to protect sailors' health by providing smoking cessation medication and support programs to sailors on every boat. Nicotine is highly addictive, and smokers often make several attempts before they succeed in quitting. By making smoking cessation medication and support programs widely available, the Navy will help more smoking personnel to quit and reap both immediate and long-term benefits to their health.
​

 

[Yankee802]

The Navy has also taken another important and necessary step to protect sailors' health by providing smoking cessation medication and support programs to sailors on every boat. Nicotine is highly addictive, and smokers often make several attempts before they succeed in quitting. By making smoking cessation medication and support programs widely available, the Navy will help more smoking personnel to quit and reap both immediate and long-term benefits to their health.

Of course this is officially only APPROVED (by FDA) NRTs, and the Navy has had these available for many years.

All I'm trying to do is get the Navy to see the value in electronic cigaretts, and if they could 'get on board' then it would be easier for everyone. I just thought this might be the catalist needed to accomplish this.

 

[UntamedRose]

Yankee..not sure I'm totally comfortable saying such. Kinda close to home ya know? This is a Public forum. No offense. But it's a 'very' small boy here in San Diego, as a Cap of a small, small boy he isnt that high ranking or powerful anyway. He isnt an Admiral kinda Captain.
Plus if I did...you went to your friend, who past it along, and it "grew" as things to often do in the Navy...and it goes bad somehow. I dont want to be the one who gets his Cap in trouble, especially for this.
Sure if it went right, that would be a great step but in my experience it going "right" is pretty slim. It to go really wrong and the military make them illegal, That wont help anyone. My guess is that it wouldnt go anywhere.


As far as getting the military uppers to openly approve such Pre an FDA ok........isnt going to happen at least not at the current usage level. (Which is kinda funny they had no problem giving Mandatory shots and vaccines that were "untested" to Everyone. Anyway...)

Know i just said..that i didnt think going to Upper officers would work. But one person who's got the rank, notability and Might be open to considering such..would be General Petraues. From what I know of the man he is pretty "liberal" when it comes to "new" things for the military....He supports(and Used) women in combat, He supports the over turning of Dont ask/tell. He might back something as "radical" as E-cigs.

I have an idea to get these to individual military members...but lack the funds to roll the ball. Which sucks.

 

[Yankee802]

Rgr that, I understand fully your concerns. I should have thought of that before asking, I just jumped the gun.

 

[Vocalek]

I got curious regarding how this ban of smoking on submarines is working out for the Navy. So I did a Google search and found some surprising information.

US submarines: underwater smoking cessation laboratories

 

[TennDave]

Very interesting:
"Sailors are given five choices: quit cold turkey, smokeless tobacco products, nicotine-replacement patches and gum, psychological cessation programmes, or, at the commanding officer's discretion, e-cigarettes."

 

[Vocalek]

The Navy had an inkling of what the effects of a complete tobacco ban onboard submarines would be from research conducted in 1960 during the shakedown cruise of the Triton.

While crossing the Indian Ocean, Triton conducted a sealed-ship experiment. Beginning 10 April, rather than refreshing the air in the ship by snorkeling each night, she remained sealed, using compressed air to make up for consumed oxygen, as well as burning "oxygen candles" to replenish the ship's atmosphere. Also, starting on 15 April, the smoking lamp was extinguished, with no tobacco smoking permitted anywhere aboard the ship.[110][111]

During this smoking ban, Dr. Benjamin Weybrew carried out a battery of tests on crew volunteers, both smokers and non-smokers, to measure cardiovascular functions and psychological stress indices to determine the effects that the prohibition of tobacco had on individual and group performance of the test subjects. The objective of this experiment was to determine the advisability of prohibiting the use of tobacco from submarine operations given the extended submerged duration of missions involving nuclear-powered submarines.[112]

The test results determined that smokers showed consistently higher mean oral temperature and pulse rate, both at rest and following exercises, as well as significantly increased pulse rates over non-smokers, a marked decrease in alertness, and an increase in insomnia symptoms. However, there was no significant difference in blood pressure between smokers and non-smokers. Finally, smokers experienced "debilitative performance decrements" during the smoking prohibition, and as a consequence, this also affected the morale of non-smokers, both among the participants in the experiment as well as non-participants. Dr. Weybrew concluded smoking should be avoided because of its attendant health and relational issues, and not smoking enhances one's overall stress coping capacity (SCC).[113][114]

At the 1963 convention of the Cigar Institute of America, Weybrew noted : "When a smoker is forbidden to smoke he just doesn't like it. The smokers in the test got irritable, ate too much, had trouble sleeping, and personal relationships began to deteriorate."[114]

Operation Sandblast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are a few more details about the 1960 experiment in this story:

The Day - A 1960 submarine smoking ban lasted just three days | News from southeastern Connecticut

 

[Baldr]

I think anti-smoking laws went way to far, some time ago. But not allowing them to smoke in submarines makes sense to me. And since you can't just turn off that "I'm a smoker switch" until you are back on land, it would make sense to me to simply say "If you want to work on the submarines, you must be a non smoker, period".

That has nothing to do with vaping, but it just makes no sense to be in a small space with no fresh air and say "Smoke away".

 

[Seattle40]

Having made 6-- 3 month patrols on Trident subs from 84-88. You could smoke freely, and boy did we !! You could buy up to 30 cartons @ 4 bucks a carton "sea store" cigs. And most did. You were not suppossed to take any left after patrol off the boat, but we all did. I was a heavy smoker, I can tell you people would have went AWOL if they just cut smoking all at once.. It was being discussed as early as when I was still serving, and everyone knew it was a matter of time. I actually thought it was banned years ago.

Subs have VERY good ventilation systems, scrubbers, burners etc. High air movement. I really don't remember to much complaining by the non-smokers..And the boats did not smell "ashtrayee".

Back then it was probably around 50-50 on # of smokers vs non-smokers.

When you got back from patrol, all your cloths, etc. smelled like amine. Which was a chemical used in cleaning/ producing oxygen if my memory serves me right...

Just an FYI from my experience

 

[TennDave]

I could just imagine the tar build up on the vents before the smoke reached the "scrubbers." I haven't smoked in about 15 months but still the vents in my little office look nasty. Some day I just need to replace them. It would be too much trouble to actually take them loose and scrub them.

 

[Seattle40]

I could just imagine the tar build up on the vents before the smoke reached the "scrubbers." I haven't smoked in about 15 months but still the vents in my little office look nasty. Some day I just need to replace them. It would be too much trouble to actually take them loose and scrub them.

Oh, I wasn't saying it was an "OK" thing. Just my experience.. I know what you mean... the stuff I cleaned off my window and miniblind next to my computer was...disgusting !!.. a real awakening as to how bad it is(was)..