SINGLE 18650 MOD safe to USB charge? & What battery for these MODs?

[vapesmooth123]

I've read the reason you shouldn't charge via USB is because multiple (not single) batteries can be a problem for cheap chips (or anything besides the DNA basically). When we only had Ego Twists and stuff with a single internal battery, everyone USB charged and passthrough vaped with no worry. Or people just used an external because it was quicker.

Anyway for some reason I hate removing batteries and charging in an external, so I spend the extra $100 or whatever for DNA mods only after asking around about this.
I've been using a Wismec Reuleaux DNA 200 for over a year. Same 3 LG browns. Purposely never rotated them once for the test I knew I would eventually run. I tested the batteries about a year later with a $500 analog multi meter and a cheaper digital meter and they were all the exact same voltages at full charge. So yes I do trust the DNA chip to USB charge.

Side note - the sketchy mods (basically everything besides DNA if I'm not mistaken) which you shouldn't USB charge multiple cells with, if I'm not mistaken, they're also just as unsafe to vape on (dis-CHARGE batteries) because it's not balanced charging and therefore not balanced discharging which could lead to a difference too large in voltage between each of the multiple batteries and cause explosion etc. - but people think "just use an external charger and you'll be safe" even though vaping the thing is just as unsafe as USB charging it.


so anyway just noting that but my question is:
My Wismec Rolo triple 18650 is just too big... So I'm searching for a dual 18650 DNA 133W+ MOD (definitely getting DNA for the dual 18650), plus a single 18650/26650 MOD.

So does the single cell MOD have to be DNA if I'm going to safely USB charge it (and passthrough vape it)? I have no problem spending a little more for a DNA single 18650/26650 but I don't want to limit my choices to only DNA because I want that single cell MOD to be as compact as possible or maybe some other small feature that would make me maybe prefer a non-DNA MOD over a DNA one.


Last side note, I have read "in short' the reason you shouldn't USB charge is because e cigs get hot and heat can damage the chip that regulates safe charging (unlike a cell phone or something which is safe to USB charge however those are single-celled batteries anyway). And that some mods don't do this as good as others but that kind of sounds wrong. I mean I think the main thing is the exact balancing that the DNA does but others don't. Maybe some newer chips are just as safe as the DNA but I really trust the DNA and I'm sort of already familiar with escribe to change to max battery life vs max puffs or vice versa etc.


-----------------------------

And then I'm just gonna chime back in after this with VERY short question of which batteries I should get for how I vape with the 2 or 3 new MODS I'll be getting after learning your inputs on if I can safely USB charge a single 18650/26650 Non-DNA MOD. Thanks in advance.

 

[stols001]

I think you can charge a non DNA single battery mod if the manufacturer designs it to do so. I mean, Provari Radiuses are actually designed to be charged via USB, and it's actually safer and easier on the mod to do that than continually removing the battery.

As far as which of the newer non-DNA mods you can safely USB charge... I don't know as I'm the exact opposite and would far rather swap batteries out. You certainly won't have an issue with balancing your batteries, but as to the rest, I am unsure. Probably someone with more experience in this matter will be along. I'd imagine it MIGHT be more strain on the battery (but not necessarily) and even if so if your preference is USB, if it's a safe, regulated mod where the specs include that it's a safe practice, you won't have problems, but again, I'm not sure which ones exactly. Best of luck in your search though...

Anna

 

[papergoblin]

I've read the reason you shouldn't charge via USB is because multiple (not single) batteries can be a problem for cheap chips (or anything besides the DNA basically). When we only had Ego Twists and stuff with a single internal battery, everyone USB charged and passthrough vaped with no worry. Or people just used an external because it was quicker.

Anyway for some reason I hate removing batteries and charging in an external, so I spend the extra $100 or whatever for DNA mods only after asking around about this.
I've been using a Wismec Reuleaux DNA 200 for over a year. Same 3 LG browns. Purposely never rotated them once for the test I knew I would eventually run. I tested the batteries about a year later with a $500 analog multi meter and a cheaper digital meter and they were all the exact same voltages at full charge. So yes I do trust the DNA chip to USB charge.

Side note - the sketchy mods (basically everything besides DNA if I'm not mistaken) which you shouldn't USB charge multiple cells with, if I'm not mistaken, they're also just as unsafe to vape on (dis-CHARGE batteries) because it's not balanced charging and therefore not balanced discharging which could lead to a difference too large in voltage between each of the multiple batteries and cause explosion etc. - but people think "just use an external charger and you'll be safe" even though vaping the thing is just as unsafe as USB charging it.


so anyway just noting that but my question is:
My Wismec Rolo triple 18650 is just too big... So I'm searching for a dual 18650 DNA 133W+ MOD (definitely getting DNA for the dual 18650), plus a single 18650/26650 MOD.

So does the single cell MOD have to be DNA if I'm going to safely USB charge it (and passthrough vape it)? I have no problem spending a little more for a DNA single 18650/26650 but I don't want to limit my choices to only DNA because I want that single cell MOD to be as compact as possible or maybe some other small feature that would make me maybe prefer a non-DNA MOD over a DNA one.


Last side note, I have read "in short' the reason you shouldn't USB charge is because e cigs get hot and heat can damage the chip that regulates safe charging (unlike a cell phone or something which is safe to USB charge however those are single-celled batteries anyway). And that some mods don't do this as good as others but that kind of sounds wrong. I mean I think the main thing is the exact balancing that the DNA does but others don't. Maybe some newer chips are just as safe as the DNA but I really trust the DNA and I'm sort of already familiar with escribe to change to max battery life vs max puffs or vice versa etc.


-----------------------------

And then I'm just gonna chime back in after this with VERY short question of which batteries I should get for how I vape with the 2 or 3 new MODS I'll be getting after learning your inputs on if I can safely USB charge a single 18650/26650 Non-DNA MOD. Thanks in advance.

You've got bits and pieces correct. Even with DNA mods, when using multiple batteries, you should external charge.

A- They will charge faster
B- They will charge more consistently
C- Charging through the mod is hard on the chipset and the batteries

In having said that, rotating can be just as important as how they are charged. The reason being is the 1st battery in the setup will always take the brunt of drawn power. DC voltage works on length, so the battery with the shortest path wins/loses,lol.

Now it also depends on how you use a mod as well, if you have a 200w mod but only run at 40w, that's a lot less stress on a system that runs all out. So that can make a huge difference and explain how one person's mod/batteries may hold up better than another's.

On a single battery mod, that supports internal charging, it's fine but still better to use an external. Removable batteries are not the same thing as built in batteries. If you will notice most mods single, dual, or triple, will say even if internal charging is capable, they recommend using an external charger.

The only VW mod I have now is a SMOK steam mini, single 18650, it will do internal charging but in their own book, recommend external. So, to me they aren't very confident in their mod and neither am I (charging wise). I had a Vapor Shark DNA30 and while it supported charging, it still recommended external for best results.

In the end it's your mod, batteries and money, so only you can decide what's the best route to go. Then as for batteries I'd suggest at least a 20A CDR, like an LG HE2 or many of the other options. I just bought 4 LG HE4's from Liion for $20+/- but there are many options.

Final note, when I had the DNA 30, I also had a 30w Hana clone, the only difference was battery life, the DNA was far more efficient.

 

[sofarsogood]

Consider ALL the devices of every kind in the world that have non removable Li batteries that have to be recharged, phones, power tools, ecigs, etc. Are their literally a billion of them, more? Probably safe practices for recharging packs with multiple cells is a fairly mature thing. Why should ecig companies do a worse job than everybody else? May be the people who need to worry are the ones who abuse their batteries with high settings that exceed the safe limits for their batteries. Damaged batteries are more likely to cause trouble than healthy ones.

 

[vapesmooth123]

Thanks for the replies. Maybe I'll sacrifice a bit and end up getting something slightly bigger or less personal preference of aesthetics for the single 18650/26650 mod and get a DNA even though it should be safe to usb charge a non-DNA chip, just to be extra careful, but either way ok.

I think you can charge a non DNA single battery mod if the manufacturer designs it to do so. I mean, Provari Radiuses are actually designed to be charged via USB, and it's actually safer and easier on the mod to do that than continually removing the battery.

As far as which of the newer non-DNA mods you can safely USB charge... I don't know as I'm the exact opposite and would far rather swap batteries out. You certainly won't have an issue with balancing your batteries, but as to the rest, I am unsure. Probably someone with more experience in this matter will be along. I'd imagine it MIGHT be more strain on the battery (but not necessarily) and even if so if your preference is USB, if it's a safe, regulated mod where the specs include that it's a safe practice, you won't have problems, but again, I'm not sure which ones exactly. Best of luck in your search though...

When I got this rolo DNA200 triple 18650, I also got the RX chip cheaper version as back up but sold it new because I read a lot about people using a multi meter to verify the RX was causing a sizable difference between each battery's voltage. I don't remember but I think it specifically said something sketchy from the manufacturer like "can usb charge but highly recommend use an external". After all that I decided DNA-only for me if it's at least 2 cells because I like to just pop the usb in and done.

DNA states "....and features cell-by-cell battery monitoring and integrated balance charger".

And evolve DNA president said "The DNA 250 features reverse-battery protection, a more robust fusing system, an improved temperature control system, 50 more watts, and two-amp charging. The two-amp charging is probably the most obvious selling point, but being able to reverse a battery without fear of damaging the board is a close second."

So that plus everything else I've read and experienced, I trust it.

I think most chip manufacturers have caught up with balanced charging and being safer in the past year or so, but just maybe not as efficient at battery life as a DNA (the DNA200 was %85 efficient and the newer 250 is %97, and now can charge at 2 Amps, plus also reverse battery protection in case someone puts the positive on the negative). I'd still rather play it safe and pay the extra $50 or whatever for a DNA chip dual/triple cell mod, better re-sale value also.

You've got bits and pieces correct. Even with DNA mods, when using multiple batteries, you should external charge.

A- They will charge faster
B- They will charge more consistently
C- Charging through the mod is hard on the chipset and the batteries

In having said that, rotating can be just as important as how they are charged. The reason being is the 1st battery in the setup will always take the brunt of drawn power. DC voltage works on length, so the battery with the shortest path wins/loses,lol.

Now it also depends on how you use a mod as well, if you have a 200w mod but only run at 40w, that's a lot less stress on a system that runs all out. So that can make a huge difference and explain how one person's mod/batteries may hold up better than another's.

On a single battery mod, that supports internal charging, it's fine but still better to use an external. Removable batteries are not the same thing as built in batteries. If you will notice most mods single, dual, or triple, will say even if internal charging is capable, they recommend using an external charger.

The only VW mod I have now is a SMOK steam mini, single 18650, it will do internal charging but in their own book, recommend external. So, to me they aren't very confident in their mod and neither am I (charging wise). I had a Vapor Shark DNA30 and while it supported charging, it still recommended external for best results.

In the end it's your mod, batteries and money, so only you can decide what's the best route to go. Then as for batteries I'd suggest at least a 20A CDR, like an LG HE2 or many of the other options. I just bought 4 LG HE4's from Liion for $20+/- but there are many options.

Final note, when I had the DNA 30, I also had a 30w Hana clone, the only difference was battery life, the DNA was far more efficient.

good point. I've read the first battery takes the brunt of everything but I think someone tried to debunk that. I purposely didn't rotate my 3X LB browns that I tested about a year later and they were all exactly the same, however, as you said, I didn't realize this until now, I was only vaping them around 50W (.45 dual Clapton personal builds or .15 TFV8 octa coils [who can even vape these at "best at 130-190W" stamped on them lol?]). if I get into higher wattage, then I'll probably just rotate them now and then. Battery doors easily just pop off anyway.

Consider ALL the devices of every kind in the world that have non removable Li batteries that have to be recharged, phones, power tools, ecigs, etc. Are their literally a billion of them, more? Probably safe practices for recharging packs with multiple cells is a fairly mature thing. Why should ecig companies do a worse job than everybody else? May be the people who need to worry are the ones who abuse their batteries with high settings that exceed the safe limits for their batteries. Damaged batteries are more likely to cause trouble than healthy ones.

true, like papagoblin said, using high wattage (which I don't happen to do) may lead to problems regardless of chip. I think most cell phones are just 1 cell batteries though, but laptops are basically like 6 18650s all linked together, but laptops don't have an atty right on top of them chugging out clouds with high heat, but that might not be the culprit at all. What do I know about batteries though? But I just don't want to use an external every day so i'ma probably stick with DNA and USB especially since I don't plan on using high wattage, but I do already have safe external chargers for that if ever need be which I use for my 18650 headlamps (which BTW are amazing and I highly recommend, they really come in handy, on ebay for like $5 from china if you already have quality protected cells and a charger, just don't recommend using the internal usb charger).


Now to sift though giant list of favorite'd mods and pick 2 or 3! Every year or so I have to catch up with everything before purchasing new stuff!

thanks again.

 

[papergoblin]

Thanks for the replies. Maybe I'll sacrifice a bit and end up getting something slightly bigger or less personal preference of aesthetics for the single 18650/26650 mod and get a DNA even though it should be safe to usb charge a non-DNA chip, just to be extra careful, but either way ok.







When I got this rolo DNA200 triple 18650, I also got the RX chip cheaper version as back up but sold it new because I read a lot about people using a multi meter to verify the RX was causing a sizable difference between each battery's voltage. I don't remember but I think it specifically said something sketchy from the manufacturer like "can usb charge but highly recommend use an external". After all that I decided DNA-only for me if it's at least 2 cells because I like to just pop the usb in and done.

DNA states "....and features cell-by-cell battery monitoring and integrated balance charger".

And evolve DNA president said "The DNA 250 features reverse-battery protection, a more robust fusing system, an improved temperature control system, 50 more watts, and two-amp charging. The two-amp charging is probably the most obvious selling point, but being able to reverse a battery without fear of damaging the board is a close second."

So that plus everything else I've read and experienced, I trust it.

I think most chip manufacturers have caught up with balanced charging and being safer in the past year or so, but just maybe not as efficient at battery life as a DNA (the DNA200 was %85 efficient and the newer 250 is %97, and now can charge at 2 Amps, plus also reverse battery protection in case someone puts the positive on the negative). I'd still rather play it safe and pay the extra $50 or whatever for a DNA chip dual/triple cell mod, better re-sale value also.



good point. I've read the first battery takes the brunt of everything but I think someone tried to debunk that. I purposely didn't rotate my 3X LB browns that I tested about a year later and they were all exactly the same, however, as you said, I didn't realize this until now, I was only vaping them around 50W (.45 dual Clapton personal builds or .15 TFV8 octa coils [who can even vape these at "best at 130-190W" stamped on them lol?]). if I get into higher wattage, then I'll probably just rotate them now and then. Battery doors easily just pop off anyway.



true, like papagoblin said, using high wattage (which I don't happen to do) may lead to problems regardless of chip. I think most cell phones are just 1 cell batteries though, but laptops are basically like 6 18650s all linked together, but laptops don't have an atty right on top of them chugging out clouds with high heat, but that might not be the culprit at all. What do I know about batteries though? But I just don't want to use an external every day so i'ma probably stick with DNA and USB especially since I don't plan on using high wattage, but I do already have safe external chargers for that if ever need be which I use for my 18650 headlamps (which BTW are amazing and I highly recommend, they really come in handy, on ebay for like $5 from china if you already have quality protected cells and a charger, just don't recommend using the internal usb charger).


Now to sift though giant list of favorite'd mods and pick 2 or 3! Every year or so I have to catch up with everything before purchasing new stuff!

thanks again.

I think you've got it, it's the heat plus power used that brings up issues. Laptops do use multi-cell packs but they are high mah low amp, no atty to create a lot of heat in a small area, needing a lot of amps.

Balance charging is getting better I do believe as well but there's one thing to me that remains. That is the possibility of a damaged mod while charging. The charging process can be the point when a normal seeming battery fails. I'd far rather destroy a $20 charger that a mod, now the chances of it happening might be small but I'd just think of the people that lost homes due to Hover Boards and/or how many had fires with the old Samsung.

Think about it, those Hover Boards are coming out of the same places making the mods. Samsung is in the battery game and even they made a mistake. So a big name company can have the same issues as a faceless Chinese factory, not much different that say DNA and ......, lol.

Fact is I mainly use mechs and my rule of thumb is I replace batteries after 1 year of use, if in good shape still, they are delegated to flashlights or lower watt VW mods that my friends have. They might very well hold up to longer use but I figure they have been cycled a ton and used somewhat hard, so I feel better safe than sorry.

One last thing to consider is are the batteries you use A or B stock and/or does it matter. These batteries are wholesale to manufacturers not end user retail, not saying they aren't being moved around but we don't know. We also have no idea how long they have sat on a shelf and such, then we still don't know they full effects of that either, other than they degrade over time. Kinda like the pulse ratings, we know batteries have them but not a length of time a pulse is measure, so it's useless info, to me anyways.

I'm not a battery guru, so I'm not saying I'm 100% right, actually somethings I do for safety may be overkill, but again I use mechs and prefer safe than sorry methods. Just read as much as you can, find info with proof such as Mooch's and decide for yourself what you feel safest doing, that's all any of us can do.

 

[QcVaper]

I charge both my mods (one dual the other single battery) through usb all the time, never had issues all i do is occasionally charge them externally and done. chipset dosen't matter as whatever you do the mod won't explode anyway, the only "dangerous" thing i can think of is if you're vaping and charging at the same time, which is never recommended anyway.

 

[Baditude]

I've used a Wisemec RX200 (not the DNA model) and a Segelei Fuchai 213 Plus (a non-DNA two battery mod), and had to change out batteries on a daily basis with both. I'm not an extremely high wattage vaper (30 - 40 watts with 0.5 ohm coils). I use the best external batteries available (Samsung 30Q and LG HG2) and charge them in an Xtar VP4. One would think I'd get longer battery use with a double or triple battery mod.

Presently using a single battery DNA mod (JAC Vapour series B DNA75W) with the Samsung 30Q's, and get a full day's use with the same coils and wattage range. I've got to believe the better battery efficiency has something to do with a DNA's power efficiency and accuracy.
__________________________________________

I've never been much of a fan of the internal battery mods. Not being able to choose what batteries I use and having to depend upon a manufacturer to choose what battery they use always made me skeptical. I've learned over time that manufacturers don't always make the wisest decisions.

With removeable external batteries, we can use the results of independent testers like Battery Mooch to help us choose the best batteries. Finding test results for LiPo internal batteries are extremely hard to find.

18650 Battery Safety Grades -- Picking a Safe Cell to Vape With
List of Battery Tests
​

If we use an internal battery mod, when that battery dies of old age we are forced to buy an entire new mod. If we use a external battery mod, when those batteries die we can simply purchase new batteries ($5 - 6 each) and continue using the same mod. This turns out to be much cheaper in the long run.

The weak link in charging a battery via USB is the USB port. Over time these ports tend to degrade. The ports primary intended use is to update the processor, not charge batteries. The USB port should only be used for charging in an emergency situation.

​

 

[KenD]

I charge both my mods (one dual the other single battery) through usb all the time, never had issues all i do is occasionally charge them externally and done. chipset dosen't matter as whatever you do the mod won't explode anyway, the only "dangerous" thing i can think of is if you're vaping and charging at the same time, which is never recommended anyway.

It's only fairly recently that multiple-battery mods with proper balance charging have become available. If there's proper balance charging, fine. If not, better not charge in the mod. Personally, I prefer to charge externally every time I can, lessens the heat build up and saves the USB port for firmware updates.

Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk

 

[papergoblin]

I charge both my mods (one dual the other single battery) through usb all the time, never had issues all i do is occasionally charge them externally and done. chipset dosen't matter as whatever you do the mod won't explode anyway, the only "dangerous" thing i can think of is if you're vaping and charging at the same time, which is never recommended anyway.

It might not explode, depending on vents and/or magnetic door. It can however catch on fire if one of the batteries were to fail, which can lead to a larger fire as it causes others to fail (in multi-battery mods). There's a reason they still make and sell those charging bags.

Not trying to be an alarmist but becoming too reliant on inbuilt safeties isn't a good idea. Look many companies want to build safe, quality mods but just like in every business some have less "ethics" than others.

The majority of mod companies are in China, so they can't be sued or held liable for anything. The worst thing that can happen is people stop buying their product. Then they could just change names and resume business as usual, it's happened before.

 

[vapesmooth123]

It might not explode, depending on vents and/or magnetic door. It can however catch on fire if one of the batteries were to fail, which can lead to a larger fire as it causes others to fail (in multi-battery mods). There's a reason they still make and sell those charging bags.

Not trying to be an alarmist but becoming too reliant on inbuilt safeties isn't a good idea

true but just to touch on that, I remember when charging bags were more popular a few years ago, and with youtube videos etc, they might have been deemed more dangerous than good. It's kind of like if you unroll a firecracker and light the pile of black powder - it'll quickly go up in flames all at once and mostly burn 'above' the pile. But the bags being not perfectly sealed or only being sealed with Velcro, it basically turns a battery incident into a fountain firework, shooting the flames and sparks in a more concentrated stream and in a further direction sometimes sideways.

However either way I think would be bad (charging bag or not) because without the bag, from what I've seen on youtube caught on camera e cig explosions, if it's not contained in a bag, it'll probably fly all over the room like a jumping jack aka blooming flower firework.

IMO the safest container to charge in is a metal ammo box some people use - drill a hole into the side for the plug, and seal up the hole so the flames can't shoot out the hole like a fountain (not sure what can be used to plug the hole, firproof caulk might pop out from force but maybe there's a fireproof weld compound putty that really hardens) or maybe drill one larger hole so the plug end can pass through and then weld or bolt on a cover plate made of two halves with a small C cut out in each so when each C joints it barely snug fits around the wire coming out.



Another thing too though is like you said, mistakes happen with manufacturers regardless, I mean new cars have be recalled because the gas pedal gets stuck in position and can't stop the car. Even safe chargers like nitecore and xtar can fail. I used to use nitecore for my headlamp 18650 and then one bay stopped working a month out of warranty which is a bit scary to see it's not charging (but at least wasn't getting hot), so I switched to xtar but can still have a failure with xtar.

 

[papergoblin]

true but just to touch on that, I remember when charging bags were more popular a few years ago, and with youtube videos etc, they might have been deemed more dangerous than good. It's kind of like if you unroll a firecracker and light the pile of black powder - it'll quickly go up in flames all at once and mostly burn 'above' the pile. But the bags being not perfectly sealed or only being sealed with Velcro, it basically turns a battery incident into a fountain firework, shooting the flames and sparks in a more concentrated stream and in a further direction sometimes sideways.

However either way I think would be bad (charging bag or not) because without the bag, from what I've seen on youtube caught on camera e cig explosions, if it's not contained in a bag, it'll probably fly all over the room like a jumping jack aka blooming flower firework.

IMO the safest container to charge in is a metal ammo box some people use - drill a hole into the side for the plug, and seal up the hole so the flames can't shoot out the hole like a fountain (not sure what can be used to plug the hole, firproof caulk might pop out from force but maybe there's a fireproof weld compound putty that really hardens) or maybe drill one larger hole so the plug end can pass through and then weld or bolt on a cover plate made of two halves with a small C cut out in each so when each C joints it barely snug fits around the wire coming out.



Another thing too though is like you said, mistakes happen with manufacturers regardless, I mean new cars have be recalled because the gas pedal gets stuck in position and can't stop the car. Even safe chargers like nitecore and xtar can fail. I used to use nitecore for my headlamp 18650 and then one bay stopped working a month out of warranty which is a bit scary to see it's not charging (but at least wasn't getting hot), so I switched to xtar but can still have a failure with xtar.

The bags can be hit it miss, depending on quality and using the correct size, bigger is better, more room for expansion of gasses. The best thing is to charge on non-flammable surfaces and of course away from them as well.

Then never charge while away from the charger, especially while sleeping. I always check on mine while charging to make sure they aren't getting crazy hot or any other issues. The batteries we are using now are safer chemistry than what was used some years ago. They can still vent forcefully but generally it's not as "colorful", less flame.

It's like you said with cars, the more safety features added create more complex systems. The more complex the system is, may make failures happen less but when they do happen, them seem more catastrophic.

 

[lamarrk]

Thread title changed at request of OP.