PG/VG bases labeled as Pharmaceutical/Food Grade. Is it legit?

[bovril]

From what I understand the product can either be pharma grade or food grade. I see lots of listings saying it's both. This doesn't make sense doesn't it? I want to make sure I am buying USP pharma grade stuff.

Also if I order from my local pharmacy, will they provide pharma grade and would it be USP or do I have to specifically tell them it must be USP and pharma grade?

 

[Hoosier]

If PG or VG meets USP standards, it exceeds, and may legally be labeled as, food grade. It may also be labeled as agricultural and/or machine grade because USP purity is above those too.

The only difference I have found in USP PG from a pharmacy and USP from a farm supply store is packaging. Same USP purity at the farm supply at less than a third of the price.

If buying it from a pharmacy gives you enough comfort that the price difference is worth it, then that is your way to go. I buy it by price and don't really care about the co-labeling.

 

[BrotherBob]

+1 for @Hoosier remarks. Right on.

 

[mhertz]

Thanks Hoosier for clearing up something for me... Logically it makes sence that USP = food-grade, as USP is the same or stricter than food-grade. However in very many COAs i've seen then i've noticed that the ones mentioning food-grade in addition to USP often state it as "tested against FCC" "tested against USP" etc. Also I once read one(person, not COA) stating that food-grade standards in rare cases could have some special thing to test for that wasen't in the USP because it solely related to food... Second, claiming compliance without testing specifically against it first, sounds a little odd to me, although I fully logically understand that if one is "higher" then it's always better(and if there's never a changed variable between them; not purity, but other "object"...)...

The thing about technical and agricultural grade was a good point and I trust you know what you talk about when you specifically state "legaly..." in your explenation, so thanks for clearing this up for me

Oh, another thing that I find puzzling, is that i've recently read a supplier of EP/food-grade VG stating that there VG was certified food-grade and that many others claiming food-grade wasen't actually certified... I mailed my local VG manufacturer/vendor and asked if they were certified food-grade in addition to USP/EP and they stated there manufacturing plant was certified/registered as a food-grade producing plant and that they dispenced there manufactured VG(EP grade) in the same manner(?)... To sell a food-grade product I think you need to be checked for sanitizing/hygiene and such, or else I don't know what it means...

 

[Hoosier]

You have done some research, that's good. USP is a certification as we use certification in common vernacular. Certified food grade is slightly different than just food grade...

A potato grown in normal conditions and nothing added to it is food grade. Test the potato to assure it's a potato and it's certified food grade. Certified food grade usually doesn't add much value to common foods, but with PG and VG it means it is tested for levels of a few compounds and to be certified, the levels of those compounds are below the standard threshold. Which is pretty much redundant after USP. (from what I remember when I researched the differences, there is one compound that has a miniscule difference between the two, FG and USP)

Canned food is allowed so much insect parts and soil and whatnot in each can to be labeled 100% of whatever is the thing folks are buying it for. A company can run random sample tests and that's fine. If they wanted to certify it, they would test every batch. Still the same number of beetle carcasses and stuff, just more through testing.

 

[Hitmetwice]

I do not disagree at all with whats been said, however....haha, when PG/VG comes from the manufacturer of USP grade product in a sealed container it is obviously USP grade.
Once that container/drum is opened, whether for repackaging or for production it is still obviously USP product being used. Once the re-bottling or processing is done, having now been exposed to air/contaminates it is not as pure as it once was and should not be allowed to be called USP grade any longer. Yes! It was USP grade being used, but is now, technically, I think, only food grade.

Thinking about industry and processors that use 45 gallon drums of the stuff, just for example. They pump what they need to do a job or fill an order from a drum, the remainder of the drum may sit for days potentially, open to the air, absorbing moisture and contaminates, in my view, this stuff is no longer USP grade.

I'll continue to buy my base from the compounding pharmacy in a sealed bottle from the USP certified facility to ensure it is the purest form I can vape. A liter of the stuff cost me well under 20 bucks and lasts me for months so do not mind paying a few cents a month more for fresh and pure.

I may be wrong, each to their own. Cheers.

 

[Hoosier]

Actually the USP standard includes standards for packaging and handling and the environmental factors during transfer.

Once the bottle is unsealed, it is no longer USP unless the standards for the environment, handling, and packaging / repackaging are met. If someone is repackaging without meeting the standards set by USP, they are violating labeling laws.

But, like I said, if the packaging from a pharmacy is comforting, then that is your way to go. I don't find comfort in packaging myself.

 

[Hitmetwice]

If someone is repackaging without meeting the standards set by USP, they are violating labeling laws.

You are most certainly correct with Everything you've stated. Some in the vaping business, any business for that matter, are much more reputable than others. Tractor supply stores or a vendor from fleabay may or may not be as concerned about the quality of the product that I'm gonna use and inhale into my lungs.

After 40 years of smoking I say that I'm now all of a sudden very concerned about the purity of what I ingest? haha. Yeah, the irony does not escape me.
For me the added comfort is worth the extra cost and trouble involved.
BTW @Hoosier , you are Legend 'round these parts, your contribution to vaping and vapers has been ongoing for years now.
You may never know how many you've helped or the lives you've changed for the better. I say this with the utmost respect and gratitude...Thank-you Sir. Cheers.

 

[Hoosier]

@Hitmetwice , um, thanks. I'm just a guy who realized one day that I forgot to smoke the day before and wanted to help others have that same amazing experience.

The mixing and stuff is just because I have trouble with letting someone else do things for me. I dove in DIY because it seemed stupid simple. Unfortunately my taste buds made me go another path and my recipes can be monstrosities...

 

[mhertz]

Thanks alot Hoosier, I much appreciate your input!

Btw, in EU where i'm from, i'm not sure if we use the FCC for monographs for food or have our own(probably), but on one of the many VGs i've sampled it's sold as EP and food-grade and it' listed on bottle to be approved for use in food by some EU directive, and I checked that directive which was a big list of monographs e.g. for glycerin etc, and when reading there COA then you can see under each thing the test-value is listed and according to what spec and on almost all it lists EP but on one it lists the E422 test in said EU monograph, so I think that was an extra thing not tested for in the regular pharma-monographs, so atleast in EU i'm not certain we can always say pharma = food too, although it would probably almost always test OK for food-grade too, but just semantics here...

I fully agree about buying the cheapest pharma-grade VG/PG that you like, no matter if cattle-store e.g, as that's irrelevant and the manufacturer caters to all markets with the product.

Lastly, I believe there's many that sell VG with labeled USP on, which is packed from USP drums but not rebottled in clean-rooms and other precautions... Just that they don't uphold the way USP products are specifically supposed to be labelled in regards to main title, seems to me to mean that they are not following it closelly(USP). Still, as long as they are using a sane environment, I don't really personally mind if it's technically food-grade, but just interesting topic for me