So yesterday I picked myself up a Innokin VTR and two Panasonic NCR18650B.batteries. I have looked at all the safe battery charts and tried doing the conversion rates and still couldn't find an answer to my question. My question is what is the lowest ohms I should run these batteries at? I don't know if it makes a difference at all but I have been using the VTR at 6 Volts and 15 Watts on my rda. I would greatly appreciate any answers so that I don't blow this thing up!
Panasonic NCR18650B.
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They are NOT High Drain batteries and will be useless with the VTR, okay for torches. What you need are proper IMR or INR batteries .
The NCR18650PF are the Panasonics you would want for the VTR. 600ish less mAh than the 18650Bs, but they can handle as much current as the VTR can plus some.
They should be fine.
Max discharge is 6.8a CONTINUOUS
Pulsed is 12a
The VTR is limited to pulsed like most regulated mods are. As far as I can find the NCRs have safety features that prevent them from going into thermal runaway. Even if you do push their limits they simply shut down (I've experienced this with the A but not the B).
As far as what you should limit your builds to nobody knows (that I know of), Innokin hasn't released what their board does. Provape has and that's what everyone bases their claims off of. If you're over the standard 1.2Ω limit you're probably fine. If you're closer to the .8Ω VTR limit you may be pushing it when you get towards the lower end of the battery.
I use B's constantly in my eVic and a 2Ω gennie without a problem. I'm sure I've used them in a Vamo (2Ω) without a problem.
In my VTR (2Ω) I use PD because I don't use it much and don't like those (high drain) batteries.
Max discharge is 6.8a CONTINUOUS
Pulsed is 12a
The VTR is limited to pulsed like most regulated mods are. As far as I can find the NCRs have safety features that prevent them from going into thermal runaway. Even if you do push their limits they simply shut down (I've experienced this with the A but not the B).
As far as what you should limit your builds to nobody knows (that I know of), Innokin hasn't released what their board does. Provape has and that's what everyone bases their claims off of. If you're over the standard 1.2Ω limit you're probably fine. If you're closer to the .8Ω VTR limit you may be pushing it when you get towards the lower end of the battery.
I use B's constantly in my eVic and a 2Ω gennie without a problem. I'm sure I've used them in a Vamo (2Ω) without a problem.
In my VTR (2Ω) I use PD because I don't use it much and don't like those (high drain) batteries.
Stop temporarily.
But it does seem to be hard on the batteries. The A I pushed that hard in a mech didn't hold it's voltage well after that.
Those batts are golden for the vtr regardless what atomizer you put on it. The vtr has protection circuits built in so your fine..
They are not good for mechanicals lower than 1ohm.
Heres the testing and they are rated as very good batts.
Test / Review: Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh (Green) | BudgetLightForum.com
They are not good for mechanicals lower than 1ohm.
Heres the testing and they are rated as very good batts.
Test / Review: Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh (Green) | BudgetLightForum.com
Those batteries are great if you use them with tanks like nauti's, protanks etc, But when you start with drippers your battery is just going to fail. It just wont work anymore ever. The Panasonic is good if you travel for like 18 hours and have no place to charge along the way but it should not be used with drippers. Get a Sony VTC5 for your drippers and keep the other battery for long trips.
I use this Battery Calculator to make sure that I don't draw more than the max amps
Most Innokin products are limited to 1.2Ω or higher. The MVP is the exception as I believe there were a few members here on ECF noting that it would allow .8Ω coils to run without issue, though it was pointless due to the limits of the mod itself. You wouldn't be getting the voltage/wattage required due to the limits of the chip/board.
As with most of their products, they really work better for the 1.5Ω+ range. If you want to sub-ohm, a DNA20 / DNA30 or mechanical mod would be the best option so that you can actually get full range and use of the battery. At the same time, know the limitations of your battery if you choose to go either route.
I like the panasonic batteries, but I stopped using them a while back in favor of the VTC4's / VTC5's and some of the 30amp EFEST batteries. They tend to work better and there are less worries about the limits of the batteries unless you're dropping down to super-low Ω's. I run them consistently at .4Ω+ with zero issues and no noticeable heat-up in merchs and DNA powered devices.
On a pbusardo video, he tested the VTR at one ohm and it was hitting hit. At the voltage setting it never rises above 3.7 volts at that resistance. Frankly, this device was not that accurate on voltage...set it for a certain voltage...it says that's what its giving you..but its not. Its also a Pulse Width Modulated device...so what it does is spank the coil on and off with 6 or more volts...then its off for a bit....6 volts...off. If it wants to give you 4 volts (at its pulse of 47 cycles a second or Hz)..its on for 31 or 2/3 of those cycles. 5 volts would be 39 of them etc. So, it can feel a little harsh on most clearos above medium settings. The wattage settings are more accurate but it still uses PWM. It does hit the 1 ohm at its version of 15 watts however...which is the 6 volts spanking that build a little over half the time. 15 watts would be low for me at 1 ohm but you might love it. Give it a shot....You could always build at a higher resistance.
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I would not say most Innokin products (I wouldn't say not most either, I haven't tested all of their products to know), but I do know that my SVD and my VTR fire .8Ω.
But that is not what we're talking about here.
We're talking about a buck/boost circuit. When it's told to fire 3.8v and the battery is 4.2v it is drawing less amps because it's cutting the voltage.
When the battery is 3.2v and it's trying to supply 3.8v it is drawing more amps to supply it because the voltage supply is lower.
You would need the company to tell you or stick an ampmeter between the battery and the mod (not the mod and the atty) to know.
Provape says 9amps but it can spike higher. That is why everyone says 10amp batteries minimum for VV/VW.
What they ignore is that amp rating is continuous and the buck/boost spikes in drain is pulsed (not talking about the 10 second cut off).
The NCR18650B has a pulsed rating of 12a according to Orbtronics.
But that is not what we're talking about here.
We're talking about a buck/boost circuit. When it's told to fire 3.8v and the battery is 4.2v it is drawing less amps because it's cutting the voltage.
When the battery is 3.2v and it's trying to supply 3.8v it is drawing more amps to supply it because the voltage supply is lower.
You would need the company to tell you or stick an ampmeter between the battery and the mod (not the mod and the atty) to know.
Provape says 9amps but it can spike higher. That is why everyone says 10amp batteries minimum for VV/VW.
What they ignore is that amp rating is continuous and the buck/boost spikes in drain is pulsed (not talking about the 10 second cut off).
The NCR18650B has a pulsed rating of 12a according to Orbtronics.
I'm no expert, but I think most opinions of the Panasonic batteries here are more MECH related (as in mechanical mod) not REGULATED mod like the VTR you have.
Like Visus said, your good to go with your mod and those batteries. They have a little higher IR (internal resistance, around 90 if I remember last time I ran some tests), but they are capable of driving the amp limit of the chip/board/controller of the VTR just fine. In a VTR your limitation is going to come from the CHIP, not the battery. The chip inside the VTR is going to be capable of delivering a max amp limit, I think 3.5amp? I'd have to google it for sure, but the battery is capable of delivering that no problem.
If your using those batteries and they are giving you vape time you are comfortable with, then I don't see a problem... VTC5's (30amp) batteries are NOT going to make your VTR handle sub ohm builds better, or anything like that. LOL.
Like Visus said, your good to go with your mod and those batteries. They have a little higher IR (internal resistance, around 90 if I remember last time I ran some tests), but they are capable of driving the amp limit of the chip/board/controller of the VTR just fine. In a VTR your limitation is going to come from the CHIP, not the battery. The chip inside the VTR is going to be capable of delivering a max amp limit, I think 3.5amp? I'd have to google it for sure, but the battery is capable of delivering that no problem.
If your using those batteries and they are giving you vape time you are comfortable with, then I don't see a problem... VTC5's (30amp) batteries are NOT going to make your VTR handle sub ohm builds better, or anything like that. LOL.
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Odd, I have the SVD and it doesn't fire below 1.2Ω for me? Nor does the VV/VW 3. I don't have a VTR to test, though the lowest on the MVP I tested just a few ago was 1Ω. Perhaps Innokin has some variances in their chips, which would explain the range of results?
As I understand, Innokin products will still fire, but at the limit. An MVP 11w limit will fire at 11w even if the math says it should be 15 or 20 or 30. But there could be a limit to where it will even fire as well.
I personally wouldn't use the Panasonic NCR18650A 3100mah or Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mah batteries in a regulated mod because of their higher resistance, low 6.8 amp rating, and NOT being a high drain battery. These hybrid batteries are for all practical purposes an low drain ICR battery. These were designed for flashlights, not mods. There are much better suited batteries for a regulated mod. The above batteries may well "work" in a regulated mod, but they will not allow the mod to perform at the optimum standard that the manufacturer designed it for.
Technical: Why High Drain Batteries?
Question for the Tech Engineers at Provape
Technical: Why High Drain Batteries?
Question for the Tech Engineers at Provape
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I have used the panasonic ncr18650b batteries in a smok sid and an eVic. I bought both devices used and both devices came with those batteries from the sellers.
I have found, through research here and elsewhere + through my own personal experience that the panasonic ncr18650b does not perform any better as far as longegvity is concerned than than a safer, imr or ncr, high drain battery of LESSER mAh rating.
I get more time with a panasonic ncr18650pf (by quite a bit)(2900mAh) than with the ncr18650b.
mAh ratings are stated according to the manufacturer's specifications. In the case of the ncr18650b, its output is measured down to 2.5 volts dc (that battery's listed safe maximum discharge voltage). Since most regulated mods are going to cut off at 3.2vdc or so, the capacity of the ncr18650b will never be fully utilized in a regulated mod.
Looking at various discharge curves of various different batteries, the high drain types typically will give more output at a voltage usable for a regulated mod than a ncr18650 (a or b) and do so using a safer chemistry.
This is a win-win for use in a pv. You get a safer battery and more usable mAh.
There is no reason to use the ncr18650b in a personal vaporizor if you understand the ratings of the panasonic ncr18650 (a or b) batteries. The additional mAh of these batteries will not be utilized in our application.
A typical 18650 powered led flashlight will work great with them however.
I have found, through research here and elsewhere + through my own personal experience that the panasonic ncr18650b does not perform any better as far as longegvity is concerned than than a safer, imr or ncr, high drain battery of LESSER mAh rating.
I get more time with a panasonic ncr18650pf (by quite a bit)(2900mAh) than with the ncr18650b.
mAh ratings are stated according to the manufacturer's specifications. In the case of the ncr18650b, its output is measured down to 2.5 volts dc (that battery's listed safe maximum discharge voltage). Since most regulated mods are going to cut off at 3.2vdc or so, the capacity of the ncr18650b will never be fully utilized in a regulated mod.
Looking at various discharge curves of various different batteries, the high drain types typically will give more output at a voltage usable for a regulated mod than a ncr18650 (a or b) and do so using a safer chemistry.
This is a win-win for use in a pv. You get a safer battery and more usable mAh.
There is no reason to use the ncr18650b in a personal vaporizor if you understand the ratings of the panasonic ncr18650 (a or b) batteries. The additional mAh of these batteries will not be utilized in our application.
A typical 18650 powered led flashlight will work great with them however.
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I'm curious about the run time. Did you actually test this with the puff counter and batteries of the same age/use?
I heard the same claims made about PD vs B and they were far from the truth by over 100 puffs (and about 50 puffs for the A).
I haven't looked for a while but when I did NCRs were the same chemistry. The only reason higher rated would be safer is to avoid pushing your luck and having a safety feature fail. IME (and confirmed by tests done in someone's video) IMR is not safer than NCR.
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