no flavor from DIY E Juice

[Steven Bumgarner]

Hello,

If anyone could help me that'd be great. So I have been making my own e juice for about a year now. I am currently having trouble getting flavor out of the recipes...I steep my juice, even use more flavor then the recipe calls for.

To give a little background, I buy all of my e juice from Wizardlabs, out of Florida. I usually buy TFA brand (cheaper). Most of the TFA products seem to be PG based.

When creating a 300 ML mixture, I'll do 10-15 ML of PG, 6 nicotine(VG based), and approximately 20-30% flavor, with the rest being VG.

For steeping, I put them in hot water for 15-30 minutes, shake for about 20 seconds, then let sit out for anywhere from an extra hour to 3 weeks. Even 2 weeks later from sitting the flavor hasn't really "come out".

What am I doing wrong or how can I manage to bring out more flavor in my recipes?

Thanks for all your help.

Steve

 

[stols001]

I'm afraid I don't have the answer to all your questions, but I will make note of some things.

Overflavoring can be as bad as underflavoring in my experience, if not worse. There are also mixed thoughts concerning a hot water bath and its ability to mute flavors. I might consider eliminating it. Some flavors also don't really emerge until a month or sometimes more passes, so it's hard to say whether you are steeping enough, as you haven't mentioned flavors.

Unless you have a rationale for a higher VG mix, PG can carry flavor so perhaps you have gotten used to that higher PG percentage, causing your high VG "experiments" to not be so great. You don't have to add AS MUCH flavor, just straight PG will meld with the flavors you have. Lessen your percentages, increase PG, and increase steeping time. That would be my initial advice. If you enjoy high PG juices, then add more PG. You can at least mimic your "flavor line" in that way with more chance of success.

Also, head over to the DIY forum: DIY E-Liquid

You should get more aid there, lots of great folks who have been at DIY a while.

Also, make smaller mixes at first. You are just wasting ingredients at this point.

Best of luck,

Anna

 

[classwife]

Moved to DIY E-Liquid from General E-Liquid Discussion

 

[Beamslider]

20 to 30% flavor? That is way too much. It may be overwhelming your taste buds. Don't know what flavors you are using but most are used somewhere between 3 to 10%.

Take whatever brand of flavor and the flavor and look to see what is recommended in %.

 

[bwh79]

Overflavoring can be as bad as underflavoring in my experience, if not worse.

This is a real thing. It seems counterintuitive but you may find you get more flavor by using less of it. It's worth a try, at least. Try just making up a batch of un-flavored, then you can cut your flavored mix in small batches by different %'s until you find the right one. I'd start with halving it, mix one part unflavored with one part flavored, to achieve 10-15% total flavor, see if that works out any better for you.

 

[FranC]

I agree 20%-30% flavor is way too much. I try to keep my mixes under 12%.

 

[Letitia]

I only have a few mixes I go over 12%. Those use some Cap & FW flavors that need higher percentages. Most of my recipes land around 7-12%. I would never mix 300ml without doing testers first. Keep in mind larger batches require more steep time.

 

[JCinFLA]

@Steven Bumgarner - It might help if you post 1 of the exact recipes you've been making, as you found it somewhere. It should show the flavorings brands and exact names, as well as the % to use of each one. Also tell us these things: 1) What mg nic base you're using that's in a VG base, 2) What finished PG/VG ratio and nicotine mg... you're wanting your finished eliquid to be.

Then post what you did to change the recipe when you made it. Maybe we can see if anything stands out as being a possible problem with how you're changing the recipe.

I will say that there's a well-known ECF member who has a blog that contains many of his recipes, as well as DIY hints, tips, etc.. He is/was a high total flavoring % mixer, and used to make eliquid commercially. (Maybe you're using some of his recipes?) I've made probably 15-18 of them in the past 3 years. They were written with anywhere from about 17-30% total flavoring. The ones I made when I first started DIY, I followed almost exactly as he wrote them, with some very minor "tweaking" to my own taste, and they tasted great then. As time went by and it was longer since I'd last smoked...I cut his % down by at least 1/3 to 1/2 and they were still great to me.

How long has it been since you smoked, or are you still smoking? That will most likely affect what total flavoring % it takes now, and may take later, for you to be able to taste them easily.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

On potential recipes I make 5ml batches. I convert everything to percents and then divide by 20 so it will add up to 5ml.

Anyway, I make 4-5 closely related versions of the recipe. I have one bottle that has a little extra of the main ingredient and another that has a little less. If there is a cream involved I may use different creams. All of it gets well-recorded. Then I let all the bottles steep with a label number that connects me back to the notes I wrote. After good steeping, I start trying them and recording results. A dripper works well. After a test of one version for 2-3ml, I pull the wick and put in a fresh one.

I also rinse my mouth beforehand so as not to get any other flavors involved.

It takes patience and a lot of notes. But, in the end the taste bud committee seems happy.

Good luck!

 

[FranC]

I only have a few mixes I go over 12%. Those use some Cap & FW flavors that need higher percentages. Most of my recipes land around 7-12%. I would never mix 300ml without doing testers first. Keep in mind larger batches require more steep time.

Given my fickle tastebuds I'd be afraid to mix 300ml of anything. Even my ADV's

 

[Letitia]

Given my fickle tastebuds I'd be afraid to mix 300ml of anything. Even my ADV's

If I had your taste buds I probably wouldn't mix over 60ml. Try the blood orange in one of your cheescakes, add cranberry or pomegranate if you have it.

 

[tara81]

Most TPA flavors are used between the 3-6% range in recipes or 10-14% as a single flavor. I have actually learned a lot from DIEorDie vaping youtube channel regarding flavor notes and reddit diy vaping flavor reviews . I also recently has a similiar problem and someone kindly mentioned I should be using 50/50 pg/vg mixtures for my tank since its a nautilis mini MTL tank instead of using high VG, which is aimed more for sub ohming. Be sure to read the rules before posting on the reddit. index/flavor_reviews - DIY_eJuice

 

[IDJoel]

So I have been making my own e juice for about a year now. I am currently having trouble getting flavor out of the recipes...I steep my juice, even use more flavor then the recipe calls for.

Have you always had this problem with your mixing; or is it something new?
If new; what are you doing differently?

To give a little background, I buy all of my e juice from Wizardlabs, out of Florida. I usually buy TFA brand (cheaper). Most of the TFA products seem to be PG based.

Many of us have shopped with Wizard Labs (including myself). They sell quality products; so that is not your problem.

When creating a 300 ML mixture, I'll do 10-15 ML of PG, 6 nicotine(VG based), and approximately 20-30% flavor, with the rest being VG.

I agree with the others that 300mL of an unknown/unproven recipe is much too large and just wasting ingredients. 10-30mL should be plenty to sample and age.

Also, it might be helpful to know, the larger the recipe batch size, the longer it takes to mature ("steep"). If a 30mL batch doesn't mature for a month; the same recipe in a 500ml batch could easily take 3-6 months before it reaches maturity.

I also agree with the others, who have asked you to share at least one specific recipe, as you have mixed it. Be as detailed as you can (complete flavor names/manufacturers; nicotine concentration).

For steeping, I put them in hot water for 15-30 minutes, shake for about 20 seconds, then let sit out for anywhere from an extra hour to 3 weeks. Even 2 weeks later from sitting the flavor hasn't really "come out".

Avoid heat until you have a working recipe to compare it to. Certain flavor concentrates don't respond well to heat.

What am I doing wrong or how can I manage to bring out more flavor in my recipes?

20-30% flavoring is extremely high by today's standards. However, older hardware did often benefit from higher concentrations. (I used some of the same recipes @JCinFLA was talking about.)

Hardware, particularly atomizers (toppers), coils (resistance, and configuration), and power settings; can have a great influence on perceived flavor. Please describe what vaping gear you are using.



For a quick experiment (and possible fix), do as @bwh79 suggested, and try diluting a small amount of one of your existing mixes. I would do something like this:

In a small bottle:
-- add 2 mL of your existing mix.
-- add 2 mL of plain VG or plain PG (doesn't matter which)
-- shake the dickens out of it.
-- vape, and see how it tastes now. Is it better, worse, no different?

This gives you a 50% dilution. By using only plain VG or VG, it is also diluting your nicotine content by half, but we are focusing only on getting the flavor fixed for now.

For a 25% dilution; you could do the same thing, but use:
-- 2mL of your existing mix.
-- 1mL of plain VG or PG.

For a 75% dilution; you could do the same thing, but use:
-- 1mL of your existing mix.
-- 2mL of plain VG or PG.

You can try all three of these experiments, in less than a half hour, and use very little in additional resources. Give it a try; and let us know what your results are.

 

[DeloresRose]

I’ve been mixing about 4.5 years. I still make a 10 ml test of every flavor the first time I use it.

When I steep, I sometimes warm water bath it. Not hot. Warm. I think that loosens up the ingredients, especially the vg, and allows them to meld a little easier. I find zero benefit from cooking the juice.

 

[stols001]

If I had your taste buds I probably wouldn't mix over 60ml. Try the blood orange in one of your cheescakes, add cranberry or pomegranate if you have it.

Pomegranate is a fantastic flavor! I use it quite a bit in fruit mixes, it really adds that "sweet but almost tart" feeling to mixes (IMO) but it goes well with a lot of stuff. It's fantastic, I think too.

Anna

 

[Letitia]

Pomegranate is a fantastic flavor! I use it quite a bit in fruit mixes, it really adds that "sweet but almost tart" feeling to mixes (IMO) but it goes well with a lot of stuff. It's fantastic, I think too.

Anna

What brand pomegranate are you using? I like the FC but shipping is pricey.

 

[Steven Bumgarner]

Here is an example of the recipe. Following the recipe, I still can't get flavor which is why I ASSUMED that more flavoring = more taste, but I was obviously wrong. I couldn't get the graph/calculator to work with nicotine but I use a 60 100% vg concentrated nicotine. I ususually dilute to 3-5 %

 

[Beamslider]

4% ethyl Maltol is probably killing the flavors too. It will mute a lot of flavor in that high concentration. Are you using it to sweeten? If so get something like CAP super sweet as it doesn't mute flavor.

EM should be used in small percentages. It isn't really a sweetener but more of a blender of flavors. It does that by muting some flavors and lettings others come out from behind them. Anything over .5% can be a problem.

 

[stols001]

I'd have to dig. I got it from Nic River but that doesn't actually tell you much. When I mix this time, I am going to write down ALL my flavors and their manufacturers. It will help me plan recipes more easily anyway. I'll get back to you @Letitia, once I do some organizing.

Anna

 

[dc99]

Drop the EM (cotton candy). SB ripe already contains maltol. Its most likely muting itself to nothing. Still a lot of flavor