Is there a conspiracy behind Chantix and Wellbutrin?

[IndigoChild]

Something just dawned on me! First let me give a little history… I have VERY severe depression and have been on hundreds of different medications, gone through lots of hospitalizations and even electro-convulsive therapy. I have asked my primary physician and several different psychiatrists about Chantix and Wellbutrin on many occasions. None would prescribe it to me. The Wellbutrin I was able to try and it didn't do much other than agitate me and set off strange side-effects and weird cross reactions with my other medications.

With Chantix, my doctors have specifically said they won't prescribe it because it causes emotional instability, bizarre behavior, suicidal and homicidal ideation, and that the stress and side-effects that it causes tend to make smokers more likely to keep smoking because they feel they need a cigarette to deal with all the unpleasant effects from the drug.

Rarely has a doctor ever refused to try a medication with me as I have high tolerances and they are usually always wanting to experiment to see if they can find something that will work better than what I'm on at the time. I am also generally very stable and able to identify if something is going wrong and know to discontinue it right away and call in.

So I was thinking, could it be possible that there's a conspiracy around Chantix to cause people who want to quit to be even less able to quit because they can't handle the effects of the drug? Also, I've noticed that almost no medical insurance companies will pay for it, it's extremely expensive and supposedly you have to sign a liability form to get it regarding the sudden strange suicidal tendencies it's incited in some people. Something seems off about all this to me...

 

[Nermal]

There is absolutely nothing off about doctors who are unwilling to prescribe either drug. Surely you could go doctor shopping and find one who would, but I can't advise doing so.

 

[flowerpots]

I think there are documented cases that show chantix is a drug with sizeable side-effects. I have taken chantix and can vouch for this. I had nightmare type vivid dreams, night sweats, and general malaise the entire time I took the medication. It does help curb cravings for smoking; I can see why people want to and do take it. I think the fact that it is such a strong medication and there have been documented varying side-effects, Pfizer has to put warnings on the medication inserts about the possible problems you can encounter, and no doub this is a CYOB thing, but at least doctors are being responsible and not prescribing it when there is concern for the patient - that's how it should always be. insurance companies are likely a CYOB thing as well. Honestly, it sounds like your doctor is looking out for your best interest. That's a good thing and rare now, I think. I would look at it from that perspective. Your GP is simply doing his/her job well and protecting you. If only they all did this...

I'm almost always for PB theories of how bad they are, so generally, I would agree, but I don't think in this case it's a conspiracy. It's simple a drug that can put a normally stable person into the throes of a mental breakdown. No medication is worth risking that if there is any question or concern at all. I think it's a huge money-maker for Pfizer, and likely much money went into it's development. I don't think in this case PB would want to risk losing the money they put into this drug by not being as cautious as possible.

 

[Katya]

I don't believe in conspiracies.

It's a bad drug with terrible side effects and the FDA is actually going to meet in October to discuss it (better late than never).

Wellbutrin has helped many people, but many also suffered bad side effects from it. Please bear in mind that Wellbutrin is not a smoking-cessation drug at all--it's an anti-depressant. But someone discovered that many people taking Wellbutrin lost their desire to smoke. So the drug was promptly renamed (Zyban) and reclassified as a smoking cessation aid under the new name--and the price went up.

 

[MorpheusPA]

Here's another vote for no conspiracy, Chantix is simply a bad drug and seriously requires re-evaluation, which I'm glad to hear it gets this fall.

I had awful side effects--I have "Mild to Moderate Clinical Depression" (by which we mean to say that if that was mild to moderate, I don't want to know what severe is like). It sent me into a down-spiral, but I'd been warned, discontinued use immediately, and called my doctor. While it took a few months to re-stabilize me, the worst was over pretty fast. So I can't complain too much since, after all, he did warn me.

The nausea, headaches, disturbed sleep cycles, general malaise, and inability to think...well, that they can keep.

My mother took it, had no side effects, and quit smoking almost instantly. So everybody differs.

We should point out that Mom went back to smoking within a year, but did finally get onto the electronic and off cigarettes. Hopefully (for both of us!) this time forever. Since we've both been off the cigs for twenty months now, it looks great so far.

 

[IndigoChild]

Did you guys notice that the desire to quit smoking with Chantix only lasted a few weeks maybe, at most? I ask this because I noticed that the SSRI antidepressants (which I'm always on and then eventually switching/rotating due to tolerance) cause a side-effect of having no desire to smoke, just as is described with Chantix. However, it wears off after about two weeks at the very longest. SSRIs are the drug category that includes Prozac, Paxil, Celexa, Lexapro, Zoloft, and Luvox.

Edit: Zoloft and Prozac were most effective in this way and had the most noticeable effect of lost desire to smoke tobacco products in comparison to the others. Paxil had no effect of this. Celexa had a mild effect of this and Lexapro's effect was a bit stronger. I'm assuming all this is personal though and probably varies from person to person.

 

[duroSIG556R]

I took this medication and as soon as the dosage was increased it was like a full blown acid trip for about 36 hours until the medication wore off. I couldn't eat, or remain calm, etc..It was horrifying. I went to my primary care doctor later in the day because I was freaking out so bad, he refused to believe it was from the medication? But said there's nothing he can do and that if it's the medication, you'll just have to let it run its course until it wears off. Needless to say, I've never gone back to that doctor again.

I certainly felt psychotic. I would advise against taking this medication.

 

[flowerpots]

Did you guys notice that the desire to quit smoking with Chantix only lasted a few weeks maybe, at most?

I took it 4X for a 2-3 month period each time. I noticed with each period I used it, the symptoms got progressively worse. I didn't notice that the desire to quit smoking faded - that part seemed to stay the same. What it did do for me is take the urges away and what was left for me to deal with was the behavioral aspects of smoking. The problem is that you see what you need to deal with at this point, but you are so strung out on the side effects, you can't do what you need to do to help yourself. The worst part is the lack of quality sleep. This builds over time and you are just too drained to do much. I'm not knowledgeable in the area of most medications, so I have no idea how this drug works chemically or what other medications are similar. I only know that it does help, if you can tolerate all of the side effects. I was not able to deal with them. Before my Dr. put me on it, she told me she felt it was a bad idea as she had patients without mental health histories have breakdowns to the point of needing hospitalization. So, it's not good for anyone.

 

[Sue1971]

I flat out refuse to use chantix to help quit, I saw what it did to my mother, She had every side effect that came with it, I even had to call the police to do a well being check on her one day, because she made the comment to me that she wanted to die...She had not ever once indicate any depression or suicidal tendency's until she went on it. Yes she did quit smoking, but she isn't the same woman I grew up with..

 

[IndigoChild]

I flat out refuse to use chantix to help quit, I saw what it did to my mother, She had every side effect that came with it, I even had to call the police to do a well being check on her one day, because she made the comment to me that she wanted to die...She had not ever once indicate any depression or suicidal tendency's until she went on it. Yes she did quit smoking, but she isn't the same woman I grew up with..

Wow. I'm really sorry to hear that. That stuff sounds horrible - not one person in this thread has said anything good about it yet. I went ahead and Wiki'd the stuff to find out exactly what it is.

"Varenicline (trade name Chantix in the USA and Champix in Canada, Europe and other countries, marketed by Pfizer, usually in the form of varenicline tartrate), is a prescription medication used to treat nicotine addiction. Varenicline is a nicotinic receptor partial agonist—it stimulates nicotine receptors more weakly than nicotine itself does. In this respect it is similar to cytisine and different from the nicotinic antagonist, bupropion, and nicotine replacement therapies (NRTs) like nicotine patches and nicotine gum. As a partial agonist it both reduces cravings for and decreases the pleasurable effects of cigarettes and other tobacco products. Through these mechanisms it can assist some patients to quit smoking."

And the mechanism of action,

"Varenicline is a partial agonist of the α4β2 subtype of the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor. In addition it acts on α3β4 and weakly on α3β2 and α6-containing receptors. A full agonism was displayed on α7-receptors.[22]

Acting as a partial agonist varenicline binds to, and partially stimulates, the α4β2 receptor without producing a full effect like nicotine. Thus varenicline does not greatly increase the downstream release of dopamine. Due to its competitive binding on these receptors, varenicline blocks the ability of nicotine to bind and stimulate the mesolimbic dopamine system, akin to the action of buprenorphine in the treatment of opioid addiction.[23]

Varenicline also acts as an agonist at 5-HT3 receptors, which may contribute to mood altering effects of varenicline.[24]"

And regarding the suicidal side-effect,

"In November 2007, the FDA announced it had received post-marketing reports that patients using varenicline for smoking cessation had experienced several serious side-effects, including suicidal ideation and occasional suicidal behavior, erratic behavior, and drowsiness. On February 1, 2008 the FDA issued an alert to further clarify its findings, noting that "it appears increasingly likely that there is an association between Chantix and serious neuropsychiatric symptoms". It is unknown whether the psychiatric symptoms are related to the drug or to nicotine withdrawal symptoms,[citation needed] although not all patients had stopped smoking. The FDA also recommended that health care professionals and patients watch for behavioral and mood changes.[11] In May 2008, Pfizer updated the safety information associated with varenicline, noting that "some patients have reported changes in behavior, agitation, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions."[12]

As of July 1, 2009, the US Food and Drug Administration requires Chantix (varenicline) to carry a black box warning, the agency's strongest safety warning, due to public reports of side effects including depression, suicidal thoughts, and suicidal actions.[13]"

I alway thought this stuff was some sort of antidepressant like Wellbutrin/buproprion, but apparently it's actually a nicotine agonist. If you don't know what that is, think about people who get addicted to ...... - if they overdose, they're given an opioid agonist (Narcann) to save their lives. It puts them into immediate withdrawal. And then there's one other agonist I know of that's also for opiate addiction called Naltrexone, which they put into different maintenance drugs like Suboxone and Methadone to reduce cravings and block the person's ability to get a reaction from any opiate-like substance except for the medication that it's paired with.

So, what I'm trying to explain or conclude is that Chantix must be designed to curb cravings as well as making it impossible to get a reaction from smoking cigarettes - since that's what an agonist does. It's a great idea, but probably not the best idea… Those treatment therapies don't always work, either. As to why it causes psychiatric illness, that's beyond my understanding of pharmokinetics. I'm sure it's all there in the explanation but I can't decode anymore of that medical jargon anymore than I just did.

@Sue1971 Did your mother continue on the medication or did she discontinue it and the changes remained permanent? If she's suffering permanent psychiatric changes, you should probably notify the FDA's MedWatch (for reporting adverse reactions not listed), and you might even have a legal case, but I don't know as that's not my area.

 

[StephanieJ]

I can't speak for Chantix, but as for Wellbutrin... It worked fine for the first 5 weeks, and just last week I started getting lightheaded, developed severe mood swings, positional vertigo, panic attacks and fatigue. I am on my first day cold turkey from the stuff. I know you aren't supposed to quit abruptly, but I refuse to take another dose of that poison. Yes I did quit smoking, but I'd rather have been locked in a room for 30 days with no cigarettes, detoxing, than be going through the hell I'm going through now.

 

[StormFinch]

As far as the Chantix goes; at least 500 confirmed deaths and it's currently the number one medication, legal or illegal, for violent behavior. Pfizer specifically weeded out anyone with depression from their original studies.

 

[Katya]

I can't speak for Chantix, but as for Wellbutrin... It worked fine for the first 5 weeks, and just last week I started getting lightheaded, developed severe mood swings, positional vertigo, panic attacks and fatigue. I am on my first day cold turkey from the stuff. I know you aren't supposed to quit abruptly, but I refuse to take another dose of that poison. Yes I did quit smoking, but I'd rather have been locked in a room for 30 days with no cigarettes, detoxing, than be going through the hell I'm going through now.

Hang in there, Stephanie.

That's what happened to me too. (post #271, 3 years ago).

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...cussion/228147-wta-future-14.html#post4601559

 

[IndigoChild]

I can't speak for Chantix, but as for Wellbutrin... It worked fine for the first 5 weeks, and just last week I started getting lightheaded, developed severe mood swings, positional vertigo, panic attacks and fatigue. I am on my first day cold turkey from the stuff. I know you aren't supposed to quit abruptly, but I refuse to take another dose of that poison. Yes I did quit smoking, but I'd rather have been locked in a room for 30 days with no cigarettes, detoxing, than be going through the hell I'm going through now.

Wow. I'm actually familiar with Wellbutrin myself as well as having had a bad experience. I was given the prescription as an antidepressant though so I don't know how the dosage differs with regard to when it's prescribed for cessation vs. depression, but it was pretty bad. For the first few days, I was alright but I slowly started to get agitated. It eventually turned into anxiety that was so bad I was whimpering and couldn't eat. The agitation eventually turned into rage fits and I nearly punched some holes in the wall which is completely out of character for me (I don't get in fights or anything and never am violent). I also started feeling dissociated and I was having trouble sleeping as well. When I did sleep, it was full of semi-lucid, vivid nightmares that were disturbing up to several hours later after having wakened up.

Since I've been on antidepressants most of my life, I'm pretty familiar with side-effects and tolerate them pretty well, but Wellbutrin was just WAY too much for me. I specifically didn't like how energizing it was. I didn't discontinue suddenly, but my doctor started me on a cross taper to another antidepressant and I did the taper faster than I was supposed to.

I think however, if a medication is making you so ill that you can't handle it, it's probably better to quit it cold turkey than to try and taper off. The acute withdrawal from most of those meds is mild in comparison to the reasons a person would consider quitting cold turkey, honestly. One thing to be taken into consideration though is that you shouldn't ever discontinue something cold turkey that could cause seizures, and you should always tell you doctor you're quitting cold turkey - regardless of whether they agree or not; they can't force you not to and you'll at least still be under someone's observation and get some pre-warnings on what to expect.

Wellbutrin, in the mental illness aspect, does however happen to be a great medication for some people though. In my opinion, it just shouldn't be given out for smoking cessation to people who don't have mental illness and should be used very carefully with people who do or are already on other medications. I've seen it work miracles for people, but it's one of those things you need to tread on like tiptoeing over eggshells. As for a cessation medication, it never did a lick of anything for me with quitting smoking. I don't recall that I was trying to quit at the time, but I don't remember having any difficulty in continuing smoking or any overwhelming ability to not be able to smoke or sensations of not wanting to smoke.

EDIT: Here are the dosage comparisons and I found my old bottle…
Cessation: 150mg which should be tapered up over several weeks starting with 25-50mg
Depression: 300mg max with should be tapered up from 100mg
My Dose: 300mg XR (extended release)

 

[Bunnykiller]

I lost a very good friend to Chantix... he suffered the worst side effect it can induce. The thoughts became a reality...

 

[m1911]

I was on Champix (or Chantix in the US) for about 4 weeks.

But as far as I know, I was asked to Not quit smoking. Smoke as much as I wanted, that instructed our brain to learn that smoking tasted foul.

Considering Chantix block our brain nicotine receptor, doesnt matter how much nicotine we consume, it simply isnt absorbed by our brain. And therefore instructing our mind to learn smoking does not create anything soothing or comfort.

I however felt the severe acid stomach, depression etc. Nothing suicidal. Just weird dreams in the beginning.

But it does cut down my analog consumption to a steadily 4/day. Why wouldnt you? Despite of the cravings, no amount of smoking does anything to sooth it.

It also made smoking tasted like burnt trash.

I stopped taking it when I had a bad flu, then started smoking again.

Then now vaping seems to do the job quite well.

Also my wife hated champix. Shes the one who has to deal with true side effect of the drug. She usually left me alone for the first hour after taking the drug.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

 

[IndigoChild]

I was on Champix (or Chantix in the US) for about 4 weeks.

But as far as I know, I was asked to Not quit smoking. Smoke as much as I wanted, that instructed our brain to learn that smoking tasted foul.

Considering Chantix block our brain nicotine receptor, doesnt matter how much nicotine we consume, it simply isnt absorbed by our brain. And therefore instructing our mind to learn smoking does not create anything soothing or comfort.

I however felt the severe acid stomach, depression etc. Nothing suicidal. Just weird dreams in the beginning.

But it does cut down my analog consumption to a steadily 4/day. Why wouldnt you? Despite of the cravings, no amount of smoking does anything to sooth it.

It also made smoking tasted like burnt trash.

I stopped taking it when I had a bad flu, then started smoking again.

Then now vaping seems to do the job quite well.

Also my wife hated champix. Shes the one who has to deal with true side effect of the drug. She usually left me alone for the first hour after taking the drug.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

Very interesting… Can you get coverage for it in the UK? In the USA, there are no medical insurance companies that cover it (to my knowledge), and paying for it out of pocket can be a couple hundred dollars - not cheap! I probably could've eventually convinced my psychiatrist to prescribe it for me, but when I found out how much it would cost, that was a main deterrent. I cannot afford a medication that expensive even if it were only intended to be taken for a couple months. They only give out a month at a time of most things here in the USA, so you'd have to get a refill every month and pay that $200 again each time. Some prescriptions can be ordered in ninety-day supply, but most medications aren't allowed to be prescribed in that fashion…

 

[m1911]

Very interesting… Can you get coverage for it in the UK? In the USA, there are no medical insurance companies that cover it (to my knowledge), and paying for it out of pocket can be a couple hundred dollars - not cheap! I probably could've eventually convinced my psychiatrist to prescribe it for me, but when I found out how much it would cost, that was a main deterrent. I cannot afford a medication that expensive even if it were only intended to be taken for a couple months. They only give out a month at a time of most things here in the USA, so you'd have to get a refill every month and pay that $200 again each time. Some prescriptions can be ordered in ninety-day supply, but most medications aren't allowed to be prescribed in that fashion…

Im actually not in the UK, im in Indonesia. Champix cost aound $36 USD here. I dont think any insurance cover the drug, even most doctors arent familiar with it yet.

 

[IndigoChild]

even most doctors arent familiar with it yet.

That might be a good thing...

 

[ndnshift]

I had nightmare type vivid dreams, night sweats, and general malaise the entire time I took the medication.

same here, along the lines of night terrors... felt completely out of it and emotionally messed up. chantix is horrible stuff...