How do you get coils to wrap tightly?

[UncleChuck]

So I've been working with Gennys and rebuildable drippers for a few months now, I have no problem wrapping a coil that performs great, but I'm having a bit of an issue getting my coils tight,especially with 28ga kanthal.

By tight, I mean very close together, as to appear as if the coils are touching each other. My issue is that the kanthal seems to have too much spring too it, even if wrapping around a small nail, as soon as I release the tension the coil springs back, and like I said this is especially apparent with 28ga. I've heard great things about wrapping extremely tight coils, but I just cannot get the wire to stay put, it seems to have a mind of its own and go springing back into whatever shape it wants.

I tried pre-heating the kanthal with a torch, hoping this would take some of the springyness out, it might have helped a tiny bit, but the issue still remains.

Anyone else share this same issue? I've seen more than a few pics of really nice, tight, uniform coils and I wish I could accomplish that.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Sicarius]

Have you tried heating the coil after it has been wrapped ?

 

[UncleChuck]

Do you mean heating it while still applying tension to the coil (holding the end of the wire as to pull the coil tight)

If so, no I have not, I had considered this as well but couldn't think of a good way of doing it. Maybe using two pairs of pliers to hold the wire in place while torching it.... I'll give it a try and report back.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[eHuman]

Run a flame over your wire end to end until it just glows orange, prior to wrapping the coil. This will anneal the wire a bit and remove some of the springiness. Wrap slowly and steadily laying the coils down right next to and touching each other. After your coil is on the wick, you can adjust them even closer if you desire by pulsing power and adjusting the coils while they are hot.

You do not want to pull a lot of pressure on your wire while wrapping the coil, just steady and even pressure. If you wrap it tight, your hot spot removal process will be much more of a pain.

If you apply heat while you are pulling tension on the wire you are likely to snap your wire. that includes holding the wire between to pairs of pliers.

 

[Gr8Scott]

This is my method of making coils that are as tight as factory made. It's lengthy because I haven't quite gotten over being camera shy, and it really needs a video explanation. Maybe in the future.

You need:

Wire
Small jewelers/electronics screwdriver (the shaft size will end up being the internal diameter of your coil)
1 or 2 pairs of hemostats
Good small scissors (Iris scissors are good)
Small knife blade.





Take a small electronics screwdriver point it upward in your left hand with your thumb on the handle where it meets the shaft(like you were giving the thumbs up sign).

Measure out how ever much Kanthal/Nichrome as you need.

Under your thumb hold about 1/2" of the wire; hold it down tight as we are going to begin the wind and holding it tight is imperative.
The tip of your left thumb should be flush and just to where the handle of the screwdriver meets the shaft.

Now, with your free right hand, get a good grip on the other end of the wire (the section that isn't still held very tightly under your thumb) and pull it as tight as you can.

We now begin the winding process.

With the thumb and forefinger of your right hand (lightly pinching wire) wind the wire clockwise beginning exactly at the base of where the shaft of the screwdriver goes into the handle.

This is a critical point. You've got to keep tension on that left thumb as you wind that coil. You also have got to keep that wire between your thumb and forefinger of your right hand very tight as you wind.

Proceed and wind as many/few wraps as you desire. Once this is accomplished, still holding screwdriver with the left (now pointing screwdriver right horizontally) clamp the remaining unwound wire (that was in your right hand) with a pair of hemostats and let 'em hang, (not letting go of the wire in your right hand just quite yet.) This weight keeps the wire/coil tight on the screwdriver.

Okay now the "coil" should be under control and not all "loosey gooosey squirrely", naturally kept in a tight wind. If there is any slack, pull it tight with the right hand.

This is where you make it tight as a factory coil. It's also a bit tricky.

What we want here, ideally, is to end up with that beginning end ( still under your left thumb) to smoothly shift off of the handle in such a way that both free ends of the coil are now under your left thumb and forefinger, without losing the requisite tension.

OR

where both your coil ends (still held very tightly wound on the shaft of the screwdriver) end up in the jaws of your hemostat, next to each other. If this occurs, success!

If the transition requires too much dexterity for ya, you could also clamp the "left thumb piece" with an additional pair of hemostats and let gravity pull the coil tight.

Leave the coil on the shaft of the screwdriver.

Okay now, either way, the coil (still on the shaft of the screwdriver) needs to be compressed.

If all the slack is out of the coil, via tightening it's legs (with 2 hanging or one fixed hemostat), take your right thumb and forefinger and pinch the shaft of the screwdriver (at the tip end) sliding the coil to compression towards and against the handle.

Try not to touch any part of the coil other than the last wind which you are compressing against, and toward, the shaft.

Hold it for a little bit, 30 seconds, 1 minute or so.

If there is any slack, adjust by pulling one or both legs, then setting them to equilateral length in the jaws of one hemostat.

(NOTE: Now is when you can widen the gap between the coils with the tip of a small knife blade, if desired.If not just continue)

Okay now, we are ready to take the actual coil off of the screwdriver shaft, without touching the wound coil itself. This is critical.

Act as if the coil will disintegrate if you touch it. This is good practice, all throughout this process. Doing so will make the coil totally perfect.

So, with the legs still in the jaws of one hemostat, gently slide the shaft out of the coil.

While its still in the hemostat, season out the potential hotspots with a lighter or torch (till it glows a couple of times).

This process of heating also sets the coil in its new shape.

Voila! A perfect tight machine quality coil.


The key is keeping that wire tight on the shaft as you wind it. You don't want to let either or both of the legs getting loose and squirrelly in the process.



Enjoy!

 

[Sicarius]

Do you mean heating it while still applying tension to the coil (holding the end of the wire as to pull the coil tight)

If so, no I have not, I had considered this as well but couldn't think of a good way of doing it. Maybe using two pairs of pliers to hold the wire in place while torching it.... I'll give it a try and report back.

Thanks for the suggestion.

That's what I meant exactly. GR8SCOTT described in more detail how to do it, but I'm certain he is a bomb disposal technician

Heating the coil in the wrapped position should 'set' it a bit in its wrapped shape and remove some of it's springiness.

 

[super_X_drifter]

I heat my 30ga Kanthal a1 with a bic lighter and quench it in water 3 times before wrapping it. I use either a 14 ga blunt tip needle as a mold for normal bore coils and a needle tip juice bottle cap for micro bore coils.

You must wrap em close and tight, but a few little gaps is GOOD.

Here is an example:

 

[UncleChuck]

That's a nice looking coil! Would you say there is a noticeable difference in performance between a coil wrapped that tight, compared to one a bit more spaced out? I've heard people say that the coil will heat up much quicker when the coils are super close (which makes sense) but the sub-ohm coils I've been making already heat up nearly instantly, so I'm trying to figure out if it's worth the additional hassle to continue trying to make super close together coils.

I've continued tinkering and tried torching a coil while it was wrapped tight, that did seem to "set" the coil quite well and left me with very close together and uniform coils.

I'll try doing several more torch passes on the wire before wrapping, maybe I'll try just using a Bic too, maybe the lower heat would be better, who knows.

Thanks for all the help guys! I really appreciate it!

 

[super_X_drifter]

What I can tell you about these small tight coils is that they perform better than sub ohm coils. In fact, such a tiny, tightly wrapped coil built to about 1.5 ohms would give you a similar vape characteristics as a .8 ohm that was normal bore and spaced wraps. Before making micro coils, I was wrapping on a screw with spaced out coils and liked them at about 1 ohm. With a tightly wrapped micro, I prefer about 2.3.

The other positive is that they stay much cleaner than spaced coils. Additionally, the flavor is much better.

I always use a 4" piece of Kanthal to make mine. Not only is it much easier to wrap with longer lengths, it's easier to mount em when the tails are long

Anything that heats up the wire to glowing is good, doesn't need to be a bic. I have done batches using the burner on my gas cooktop
And don't forget to run it under the faucet between each torching.

 

[BadDaddy4007]

I've started using screws to make my coils. I tried and tried to get good looking and workable coils using needle tips, needles and various other round objects. For small diameter wick, I use a #4 screw and for larger ones I use either a #6 or #8.
After wrapping the coil, I unscrew the coil from said screw, grab the lead ends with a pair of flat nose needle pliers, heat it to glowing red with a bic lighter. Using this method I've had no problem getting my coils looking good and no hot stops.
The most frustrating part is getting the wick fed through some tiny holes!

 

[st0nedpenguin]

Here is an example:

I don't think I'd get anywhere near a single drag on that thing before the wick was dry as a bone.

 

[super_X_drifter]

I don't think I'd get anywhere near a single drag on that thing before the wick was dry as a bone.

For me, its more about vapor quantity and quality than length of hit. Id be willing to lay down some cold hard cash that says that bad boy would have you in a choking and gasping fit if you pulled off it as long as you have to pull off one of them tank type setups to get a decent hit. I usually get 2-3 that directly emulate the drags off a Marlboro light I took for 30 years before I have to squeeze the bottle and wet it again.
Haven't burned a wick yet either

For me though, I build to emulate smokes to satisfy my desire to smoke. I am definitely not trying to measure how big and long a hit I can take. did enough of that shi t in my teen years

As I stand here typing this, I dragged as long as I could and holy shi t batman, the freakin smoke rings you can blow with all that vapor are off the chain.

 

[Jeremy Evans]

I've started using screws to make my coils. I tried and tried to get good looking and workable coils using needle tips, needles and various other round objects. For small diameter wick, I use a #4 screw and for larger ones I use either a #6 or #8.
After wrapping the coil, I unscrew the coil from said screw, grab the lead ends with a pair of flat nose needle pliers, heat it to glowing red with a bic lighter. Using this method I've had no problem getting my coils looking good and no hot stops.
The most frustrating part is getting the wick fed through some tiny holes!

That is what I want to know, HOW IN THE HELL do you feed wick through the coil???? I can handle the coiling part just not feeding wick through one

 

[super_X_drifter]

That is what I want to know, HOW IN THE HELL do you feed wick through the coil???? I can handle the coiling part just not feeding wick through one

It is not easy, nor is it too challenging. I use an illuminated magnifying stand. I twist up the rolled cotton so there is a point on one end. I have a wet paper towel to keep my twisting fingers moist too.

My builds are definitely extra work and detail, but totally worth it IMO. I believe coils and wicks are like women: big, loose gnarly ones will get ya by in a pinch but tight, pretty and small ones are where it's at.

I'm into the little details that take a vape from "damn, that's pretty good" to like "damn, that's equal to or even better than a Marlboro light"

 

[xxbodkinxx]

Superx with cotton is a piece of cake but with silica is extremely hard. I built my 1st cotton coil and it was cake and it tastes great.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

 

[BadDaddy4007]

That is what I want to know, HOW IN THE HELL do you feed wick through the coil???? I can handle the coiling part just not feeding wick through one

Mostly what I do is twist the end of the wick and slid it through. Sometimes I have to use a needle threader for the #4 size. But after using the threader that sometimes spread my coils too far apart, I made a coil threader out of some non-resistance wire with a loop on the end. That way I can thread it, put the wick in the loop and just pull it through.

 

[super_X_drifter]

Superx with cotton is a piece of cake but with silica is extremely hard. I built my 1st cotton coil and it was cake and it tastes great.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

Nice build dude

Here's a handy trick I found to get the cotton thru:

I use that 14ga luer lock blunt tip needle as a mold to wrap my coil around, leave the coil on it, mount the coil on the atty, using the needle to position the coil in the optimum location, then thread the point of the cotton into the needle, slide the needle out taking the wick with it. Then pull the wick into its final position, trim, wet and vape like a rock star.

Now 14ga ain't exactly a micro coil, but its a damn sweet size for a simple, awesome noob and vet friendly vape.

 

[Jeremy Evans]

^^^ Genius !!!

 

[pdib]

OP. you can reheat your wire as many times as you like. Glow it with a lighter. Wrap it on whatever. Slide it off and glow (anneal) it again. Back on the drill bit (or needle, nail), tighten by pulling each end and scrunch together. Back off, reglow, readjust, etc. Each time you bend it, it "hardens" to that shape. Each time you anneal it, it relaxes into that shape (and can be further manipulated, hardening into the next adjusted shape)

 

[Jerms]

OP. you can reheat your wire as many times as you like. Glow it with a lighter. Wrap it on whatever. Slide it off and glow (anneal) it again. Back on the drill bit (or needle, nail), tighten by pulling each end and scrunch together. Back off, reglow, readjust, etc. Each time you bend it, it "hardens" to that shape. Each time you anneal it, it relaxes into that shape (and can be further manipulated, hardening into the next adjusted shape)

Excellent post. And helps remind us, the metal doesn't have a mind of it's own (though it often seems that way) but instead we are able to control and manipulate it. With practice we get better at making the results what we have in mind. Often wrapping a coil I remind myself to slow down if the wire seems to be guiding me instead of me guiding the wire.

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