How common are thermal runaways/ battery venting?

[Niamh]

How common is it for a battery to vent? Reading on here it actually looks pretty common, like every time there's a thread on battery safety one or two people seem to have had an incident, this is giving me the fear. I would like to know how common battery venting is, stats would be good.

 

[Jay-dub]

Lithium-ion Safety Concerns – Battery University

Keep in mind the source. The article does site some references though.

 

[tj99959]

It's not common at all, but it is something to keep in mind and prevent.

 

[Thrasher]

pretty low actually, in many of those threads its the same stories being repeated

Safety is important but in the case of removable rechargeable batteries there are almost no actual incidents involving the person using the mod then having problems. in almost every case it was abuse to the battery or lack of care in storing the mod leading to a discharge or stuck button kind of thing or having a failure of a charger (usually cheaper ones).

ego batteries are the same way in almost every case (almost being the key word) it is a lack of respect or user error causing the problem as in leaving the battery to charge in the car on a summer day etc.

except for some idiot modder a while back there has been no case of someone pressing the button and the mod going boom.

there are also a few vids on the tube showing people trying to force the li ion hybrid rechargeables like aw and panasonic to vent with pretty disappointing results.

 

[Niamh]

Lithium-ion Safety Concerns – Battery University

Keep in mind the source. The article does site some references though.

They say "Let me assure the reader that lithium-ion batteries are safe and heat related failures are rare", however, when I look on here failures seem really common. I wonder if ECF could collate the data and come up with a figure, it's sending my OCD into overdrive

 

[emus]

I haven't seen the statistics either. Makes me think venting is rare and stats are too boring for an eye catching media headline.

I saw one YT video where "LI-Ion" exploded, but it looked like a Li-Po to me?

 

[Niamh]

pretty low actually, in many of those threads its the same stories being repeated

Safety is important but in the case of removable rechargeable batteries there are almost no actual incidents involving the person using the mod then having problems. in almost every case it was abuse to the battery or lack of care in storing the mod leading to a discharge or stuck button kind of thing.

ego batteries are the same way in almost every case (almost being the key word) it is a lack of respect or user error causing the problem as in leaving the battery to charge in the car on a summer day etc.

except for some idiot modder a while back there has been no case of someone pressing the button and the mod going boom.

thanks, didn't see that before I posted

 

[Recon Number 54]

Fortunately, they are not common. Improved battery composition along with increased user awareness both help to keep the overall number of incidents down.

However, "nothing travels faster than bad news" and if someone is injured? It tends to make headlines and bring cries of "See? I told you that these things aren't safe!" from those who are looking for any reason to point fingers.

Any incident is "one too many", but as long as people aren't aware of common safety practices or lose sight of the fact that batteries are containers of stored energy, a LOT of stored energy, there will always be a risk of these unfortunate events.

 

[Thrasher]

it is important to buy quality batteries for OUR purposes - as in high drain.
paying attention to variables and using a quality charger will also cut down these risks.
there are more fires and problems with laptop and phone batteries then there are with mods and batteries. just the other day I read an article about an ipad exploding in the apple store in front of people.

you cant abuse these batteries that is for sure, but they are costantly working on making them as safe as possible. many regulated mods have several safety features and we harp the crap out of being safe when people want to play with mechanicals.

 

[trouble1000]

Probably the best way to think about it is :

How many vapers are there in the world and how many incidents have occurred. I don't know the exact figures, but vapers are in the millions and incidents can be probably be counted with your fingers. I'd say that's a very low percentage.

As Thrasher says, it's mainly down to user error or money saving

 

[Jwaterski]

Only common on dreamliners!

 

[BardicDruid]

Lithium-ion Safety Concerns – Battery University

Keep in mind the source. The article does site some references though.

I know the source very well, Cadex Electronics, I worked on some of the equipment they've designed and built, I trust Battery University way more than some hobbist on a forum.

 

[AttyPops]

It's NOT exactly common...but not rare either. There's no statistics and frankly, since a lot of people won't admit to some self-stupidity/accidents, it may go under-reported.

Using the Laptop and Airlines as examples is a bit of apples-to-oranges but e-cigs stress these batteries pretty hard too. So....
It's not unheard of. Getting better all the time, IMO, as people become aware and batteries get better.

The real point is that you don't plan and design for "averages". You plan and design and take precautions for worst-case. So your actions should be such that you're ready for worst-case, know it can happen, and take steps to avoid it.

Basically, it CAN happen. It HAS happened. So be careful. Statistics are for after-the-fact and not avoidance.

 

[Baditude]

I agree that most incidents likely go unreported. I experienced a runaway battery in a mechanical mod and never reported it. ECF likes to keep track of serious battery incidents, but when I tried to find where to report them or where those statistics are kept I couldn't find them.

E-cig batteries are "reasonably safe" to use for our purposes, with a lot of "IF's" included. Most of those "ifs" include:

• Using higher quality name-brand batteries and not lesser brand or generic batteries. The same goes for chargers. Batteries and chargers are not created equal, and time and bench testing have shown which brands have stood the test of time. Batteries and chargers are not the things to skimp pennies on; they are the most important pieces of gear you will buy.
  
  
• Using the appropriate battery chemistry type for your particular application. Some batteries are fine for a mechanical mod using common cartomizers or clearomizers, but once you decide to use a Kick or RBA with them you can be pushing those batteries past their safe limit.
  
  • "Unprotected" can mean two different things. Often referred to as safe chemistry, IMR, or hybrid batteries. It can also mean ICR li-ion batteries without protection which should never be used in a mod.
  • Current beliefs are that the unprotected IMR/hybrid "safe chemistry" batteries are safer than protected ICR batteries.
  
  
  • If using sub ohm coils in an RBA or RDA, be certain that you know your battery's specifications and if it will safely fire the resistance coil you are using. Sub ohm lower than 0.8 ohm require special high drain batteries which have over 10 amps continuous discharge rate. This is critically important as regular IMR/hybrid batteries can easily be pushed beyond their capabilities and vent. Protected ICR batteries will not have the necessary amperage for sub ohm.
  
  
• Regulated mods generally require high drain batteries for their boost regulation circuitry. These include IMR and hybrid types. Using a Kick in your mechanical mod requires using high drain batteries, as does an RBA/RDA.
  
  • Regulated mods are safer than mechanical mods due to their processor's built-in protective circuitry. Consider using a Vape Safe Fuse or a Kick in a mechanical mod to make a mech mod safer to use.
  
  
• Practice safe battery habits and use common sense at all times. Don't carry spare batteries loosely where they can come into contact with other metalic things such as coins or keys (pocket or purse) or be exposed to static electricity. Carry spare batteries in a plastic battery case. Do not expose batteries to heat, ie don't leave batteries or your mod in an unvented hot car.
  
  
• Don't leave a charger and charging batteries unattended, statistically most battery incidents occur during charging. Higher quality chargers stop the charging process once the battery reaches a full charge, BUT any mechanical device can fail - it's not worth burning your house down and risking lives for. Remove fully charged batteries as soon as possible.
  
  
• If a battery, fire switch, or mod body feels hot - STOP USING IT. There's a short circuit someplace.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html

Why High Drain Batteries?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/announcements-news/129007-warning-rechargeable-batteries-apvs.html

Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected?

Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/465483-sub-ohm-vaping-discussion-safety-battery-info-warnings.html

 

[Niamh]

• Current beliefs are that the unprotected IMR/hybrid "safe chemistry" batteries are safer than protected ICR batteries.

What are Obtronic Hybrid batteries and how are they different from the usual AW IMR?

 

[Thrasher]

orbtronics is a very well known vendor who relabels quality cells from panasonic, sanyo, samsung, sony, and a few others.

 

[Niamh]

Thanks. I emailed Obtronic as well, just after I posted here, they got back to me really quick, they say the hybrid batteries are different because they have nickle added which increases the Mah. Read somewhere else that adding nickle does make batteries bit more sensitive to over charging.
Surely the perfect battery would be IMR including a protection circuit which allowed for high drain capabilities, if we can invent a non carcinogenic cigarette surely this is possible

 

[vicflo]

Thanks. I emailed Obtronic as well, just after I posted here, they got back to me really quick, they say the hybrid batteries are different because they have nickle added which increases the Mah. Read somewhere else that adding nickle does make batteries bit more sensitive to over charging.
Surely the perfect battery would be IMR including a protection circuit which allowed for high drain capabilities, if we can invent a non carcinogenic cigarette surely this is possible

to put it in perspective, the biggest difference between the widely used "unsafe chemistry and unprotected" li-ion batteries in everyday electronic devices aside from being completely sealed and soldered/welded into one solid unit, is the simple addition of on-battery thermal sensors. other than that your laptop battery is actually less sophisticated than some of the VV mods that we use.

the reason why its so safe is because the thing every shorted battery does regardless of what its made of is the fact that it gets HOT. except car batteries maybe because 500+ amps is a different story.

if any of several safety points fail in them it renders the entire battery useless. part 2 is where some companies remove them and re-wrap the cells that test good.

 

[AttyPops]

Yeah and the "battery pack" has, supposedly, monitoring circuitry....AKA short circuit protection. Didn't thermal sensors and monitory haven't completely eliminated problems in airlines, laptops nor e-cigs.

I think there's still a "bad cell is a bad cell" kinda thing. And even IMR cells vent...just not as violently due to composition. But hey, you know what they say "it still beats smoking!".

P.S.
I think we should ask the mods to add ISBS (I Still Beats Smoking) to the ECF abbreviation dictionary so we don't have to type the phrase all the time. :/ But then again, it abbreviates to "Is B.S." so maybe not!

 

[Baditude]

Surely the perfect battery would be IMR including a protection circuit which allowed for high drain capabilities...

You could always use a Vape Safe Fuse, making your IMR high drain battery "protected".

Although some would call that overkill due to IMR and hybrid batteries being "safe chemistry", another layer of safety protection couldn't hurt.