E-liquid reduction (Dilution) question

[crxess]

Holidays have taken their toll on my finances and I have several new Vaper in family to get motivated to stick with it. I want to supply them with enough e-liquids to keep them going for a bit.

Please lets skip all the Vender recommendations. I already shop with 18-20 and all have good and (Very) bad juices.

Daughters are 30ish and still into sweets,etc I ordered a few samples from ECBlends in standard and Double Flavor, 12mg., 50pg/50vg to try out. We have picked out a few that are really nice after proper steeping. The Doubles are VERY Flavorful. Same taste just way more of it. I have them set at 12mg ml Nic. This way we can all enjoy any purchase.

Question is: If I order our preferences in (X) quantity @ 24mg., Double Flavor, and 100% PG - Will reducing by 50% with plain VG work well? Looking to maximize investment without ruining everything.

If not a good idea, any suggestions? Please remember, I'm tapped out for a while and don't want to fail them.

Thank you and Best wishes to All!
Dal

 

[boomerdude]

By diluting the mix with PG or VG you will further dilute the Nicotine and the flavor. Say you have a 30ml bottle of 100% PG and 24mg of Nic. By adding 15ml of VG you'll wind up with around 9mg of Nic and the flavor of course will be reduced. You may want to pour half a bottle of the original mix in a new bottle and reduce that by the 50% ratio. That way you'll still have half of the "good" stuff left if things go south.

 

[cedric212]

Since you're planning to do 1:1 dilution, the biggest issue is the flavoring. "Double flavor" doesn't necessarily mean 2x flavoring %, so I would recommend you to email the vender or experiment with small batches using VG and a "double flavor" eliquid to see whether halving "double flavor" flavoring will work for you.

 

[Hoosier]

It does not take twice as much flavoring to double the amount of flavor you taste. (Some vendors may actually double the amount of flavoring, but that would probably be the exception to the rule.)

Since you don't want vendor recommendations I will refrain from telling you that Tasty Vapor sells large bottles of 0mg flavored juice, called Doublers, just for mixing down nic levels at a heck of a lower price than the nicotine containing juice they sell.

 

[crxess]

Added info:
From Vender site -Finally, Double Extra Flavor is for folks who like a really strong or intense flavor, or for those who are mixing flavors. Double extra flavor also helps to keep mixes from diluting.
IF YOUR BLEND IS 'TOO' FLAVORFUL
The first method is DILUTION: You can use flavorless with the same nicotine and base mix options, then mix in a different bottle. Add a small amount of each bottle, shake, sample, then adjust by adding more of either flavor until you find the right mix.

My intent is to mix 3ml test batches - Hot bath and 24hr before testing. Can't take to long doing this.

Wouldn't a 50% reduction result in 12mg nic not 9 ? If not, can someone enlighten me?

Thank you

 

[J.R. Bob Dobbs]

if you have a 30ml bottle of Xflavor at 24mg and you mix it with 15ml of unflavored 0mg pg or vg you will end up with a bottle of 45ml roughly at 9-12mg nic, depending on what the vendor used as a base nic %. think of it like making a copy of a copy on a copy machine. the flaws that were not present in the original will be exaggerated in the copy of the copy. the flavor takes a hit here.

your best bet to keep quality flavor and get the nic strength you want would be to find a place that offers 0mg flavors at reduced prices and mix them with something stronger than you actually want. I would honestly say buy 36mg juice and dilute with same flavor 0mg. you should end up somewhere in the 12-16 range doing that.

but as with any new mix they will have to steep a while, though not as long as when you first got them. a day or two should be sufficent provided you shake often. this is so the nicotine has a chance to fully blend with the 0mg in the larger bottle.

 

[J.R. Bob Dobbs]

yes and no. take a dropper and put one drop of food coloring in a glass of water. watch what happens. Now do the same one drop of coloring into something smaller, lets say a soda bottle cap. you will see a big difference. This is also true of soap when mixed with water, yes its still soapy, but the soap is less effective when highly diluted. Like when you hand wash your car and the bucket is almost empty and you just add more water and not soap.
how things dilute depend largely on the medium that they are diluted into. Some things will not dilute at all. especially in the case of a "saturated" mix. What that means is the medium used for dilution can hold no more particles of what ever you put into it. (you can see this for yourself easily by adding salt to water and stirring. keep adding salt until the water becomes so cloudy you cannot see the bottom of what you are mixing in. then stir for a couple more mins and pull whatever you were stirring with out of the lquid, it will likely be covered in salt crystals)

Added info:
From Vender site -Finally, Double Extra Flavor is for folks who like a really strong or intense flavor, or for those who are mixing flavors. Double extra flavor also helps to keep mixes from diluting.
IF YOUR BLEND IS 'TOO' FLAVORFUL
The first method is DILUTION: You can use flavorless with the same nicotine and base mix options, then mix in a different bottle. Add a small amount of each bottle, shake, sample, then adjust by adding more of either flavor until you find the right mix.

My intent is to mix 3ml test batches - Hot bath and 24hr before testing. Can't take to long doing this.

Wouldn't a 50% reduction result in 12mg nic not 9 ? If not, can someone enlighten me?

Thank you

 

[crxess]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Here is part of my confusion on this:
Got a 10ml, 12mg. Kahlua from HDV - Great tasting juice but to rich for me to enjoy more than a little at a time.
I mixed flavorless 18mg pg 65% with Plain vg 35% then used this to do a 1/3 Kahlua to 2/3 base.
Taste is still very nice and I can vape as much as I like. Nic seems good and TH the same as my other 12mg. juices.

I could go higher Nic on the order, but would prefer lower dilution if needed for flavor. Grand kids around and I really don't like having anything extreme around, even well stored.

 

[J.R. Bob Dobbs]

so let me understand this, you mixed that 18mg with plain vg. what size bottle did they end up in? i assume your base was the flavorless plus the vg then you mixed in the Kahlua right? If i knew the bottle size i might be able to guesstimate the nic level of what you created.


i forgot to mention if you only want to drop nic a little bit when diluting. If you order some flavorless liquid, or flavored contact a seller see if he can mix it at 1-6mg. then when you dilute your still adding some nic to the overall mix and it wont cut it in half or less. i would think something like 1-6 mg of nic in at least 10ml of what ever flavor or flavorless your going to be using to dilute.

but overall what is important is you being happy with the flavor. beyond that you just need to get the nic level where you want it or you will use a lot more juice.

 

[cedric212]

30ml bottle of 24mg/ml + 15ml of PG or VG = 9-12mg/ml? Shouldn't it be 16mg/ml since it's a 2:1 dilution?

As for combining ejuices, download and install ejuicemeup: eJuice Me Up - Best eJuice Calculator
Go to the toolbar, under Tools there's a "Nic Combine" feature that comes handy for calculating the end product nic and PG/VG% using different ejuices.

Based what's given, your base is 11.70 mg/ml at 65/35 PG/VG ratio


When you combine 1/3 Kahlua to 2/3 base, you get 11.8mg/ml at 60/40 PG/VG ratio (assuming Kahlua is 50/50 PG/VG) while reducing the flavoring to 33%.


That's pretty straightforward for nic/PG/VG, but the tricky part is the flavoring %. Why? Because different ratio of PG/VG requires slightly different flavoring %. For example, my DIY eliquid using 70/30 PG/VG requires 20% flavoring while mixing it at 50/50 I would have to bump the flavoring to 25% range to reach the same flavor level due to the fact that PG is a better carrier of flavoring whereas VG tend to mute the flavor. So does that mean all venders adjust the flavoring % to different PG/VG? I honestly can't say for sure.

Assuming the vender does double the flavoring % with "double flavor" option, then the best method for you is to use the same PG/VG ratio base corresponding to the PG/VG ratio of the eliquid for dilution. For example:

One part of 24mg/ml of 50/50 PG/VG "double flavor" with one part of 0mg of 50/50 PG/VG to get 12mg/ml of 50/50 at standard flavor
OR
One part of 12mg/ml of 50/50 PG/VG "double flavor" with one part of 12mg of 50/50 PG/VG to get 12mg/ml of 50/50 at standard flavor

 

[crxess]

cedric212, thank you. I believe you nailed it down pretty well for me and it makes a lot more sense laid out that way.
I must admit one ignorance on my part. I have the Juice calculator on my laptop. Have not learned to use it (no DIY Yet) and forgot it was here.
I will start working on using it and hopefully not pester everyone here to much down the road.

Oh, I used 2 10ml bottles using the unflavored (65% 18mg nic pg and 35 0nic vg) at 6ml adding 3ml 12mg Kahula 50/50 ------ 9ml per bottle.

 

[cedric212]

cedric212, thank you. I believe you nailed it down pretty well for me and it makes a lot more sense laid out that way.
I must admit one ignorance on my part. I have the Juice calculator on my laptop. Have not learned to use it (no DIY Yet) and forgot it was here.
I will start working on using it and hopefully not pester everyone here to much down the road.

Oh, I used 2 10ml bottles using the unflavored (65% 18mg nic pg and 35 0nic vg) at 6ml adding 3ml 12mg Kahula 50/50 ------ 9ml per bottle.

Glad you are able to follow my line of thought above...wasn't sure if I explained it clearly, LOL .

If the Kahula is 50/50 PG/VG ratio, then my previous calculations will hold true and your final mix is 11.8mg/ml at 60/40PG/VG containing 33% of the original flavoring. Keep in mind my calculations uses % instead of ml but at the same ratio (% out of a 100ml mix), so regardless of the final ml of the mixture the final nic concentration and PG/VG ratio will remain the same.



As long as you understand the concept of the necessary calculations and are comfortable navigating of the software then you'll do just fine.

Since you already have nic and PG, then definitely your next step is grab some flavorings and venture into DIYing your eliquid to save some serious $$$. Good luck and vape on! Merry Xmas and happy holidays!

 

[boomerdude]

You also have to take into consideration that the nicotine will be further diluted by the added flavorings. Hence the 9mg of Nic in the original calculation.

 

[cedric212]

You also have to take into consideration that the nicotine will be further diluted by the added flavorings. Hence the 9mg of Nic in the original calculation.

Oh I see, but that only holds true if the mixologist doesn't take the added flavoring (=PG) into account and compensate by reducing the amount of PG used in the original mix. It's possible, but that would mean the mixologist aren't very good at what they're doing...

 

[boomerdude]

That's what the flavor check-boxes are for.

 

[crxess]

Thanks all and my Dilutions were to RTV E-liquids not flavorings so no additional Nic drop.
Lost out om my Kahlua - Turns out both daughters really liked it. 2 New converts is worth a little Kahlua