Does MTS vape wizard work?

[ChelsB]

reviews make it sound like it is really good stuff and I have a lot of juice I've made that needs help. I'm wondering if you have tried it and if it is as good as people say, or if that's just paid positive reviews?


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[DaveP]

I have a bottle of MTS Vape Wizard and haven't tried it yet. MTS supposedly stands for Mellow, Thick, and Smooth. I have a few hard edged tobacco juices that I plan to try it on.

Others will be along to talk about their experiences with MTS Vape Wizard.

Bump ...

 

[Dougiestyle]

It is primarily an accent for tobacco mixes.

 

[IDJoel]

Like pretty much everything else; it has its usefulness. It can (and does) mellow out high notes, create a thicker mouth feel, and smooth out sharpness in some recipes.

It can also fade wanted high/sharp aspects of lighter recipes. And like anything; using too much MTS will wreck any recipe. It can also become a crutch. A mixer can choose to become dependent on its use instead of learning how to mix a recipe correctly to begin with.

I find it a useful tool to have in my flavor stash but I don't reach for it often.

It is possible it will help resurrect some of your previous mixes; but I would take off only a small portion (5ish mLs?) and add a drop of MTS to that, give it a good shake, and vape test it to see if it helped at all. That way you are not creating a bigger problem for the entire batch.

 

[ChelsB]

Like pretty much everything else; it has its usefulness. It can (and does) mellow out high notes, create a thicker mouth feel, and smooth out sharpness in some recipes.

It can also fade wanted high/sharp aspects of lighter recipes. And like anything; using too much MTS will wreck any recipe. It can also become a crutch. A mixer can choose to become dependent on its use instead of learning how to mix a recipe correctly to begin with.

I find it a useful tool to have in my flavor stash but I don't reach for it often.

It is possible it will help resurrect some of your previous mixes; but I would take off only a small portion (5ish mLs?) and add a drop of MTS to that, give it a good shake, and vape test it to see if it helped at all. That way you are not creating a bigger problem for the entire batch.

Thanks! Does it need to steep more after adding the MTS?


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[IDJoel]

I don't recall MTS requiring any steep time of its own. Some say that its effect will continue to improve over the first day or two but not much additional change after that point.

 

[tokarev]

I can't really say whether "it works", but I keep some on hand because some of the tobacco recipes I found online call for it. I'm not really into creating my own mixes from scratch yet. So far I'm using recipes I find online and maybe tweaking them a little. Once I get bored with those I'll probably strike out on my own.

 

[ChelsB]

Anyone else have input?

 

[ChelsB]

Wondering how many drops o should add to a 30ml bottle?

 

[IDJoel]

Wondering how many drops o should add to a 30ml bottle?

Hi @ChelsB! I answered this in your PM, but for the sake of anyone else reading this has the same question, I will share the answer here too.

ETA: Please keep in mind that the following is only my own opinion and that others may feel quite differently. That is perfectly fine, and my opinion is in no way meant to devalue, or belittle, opinions of others.

I am afraid I can't offer a "drops" suggestion. I don't/won't use drops as a measuring method. There are just too many variables that are unaccounted for unless you are going to verify actual drop size/output (you can do this by taking a 1 milliliter syringe w/o needle, remove the plunger, hold your finger over the tip, and then add drops while counting until you reach the 1mL mark - remember to deduct the first couple of drops that it took to fill the tip proper (this is the amount that would remain in the tip when the plunger was depressed; and is accounted for when the syringe is calibrated and marked)).

I experimented very briefly in the beginning with drops, but quickly found that though 20 drops/mL seems to be the accepted "norm," It was never remotely close to the reality (for me anyway). When I performed the above mentioned drop count measurement; I was getting anywhere from 30 to 45 drops per mL. It all depends on the bottle size, tip size, shape, and orifice diameter, as well as the current viscosity of the liquid (which will also be affected by temperature).

None of that was beneficial to my own obsessive compulsive nature so I dumped the idea of drops immediately. If you are not all ready doing so; I would strongly encourage you to start mixing by volume (syringes) or weight (scale).

That said, I do know of mixers out there that are perfectly content mixing by drops, and I fully respect their choice to do so. I just can't offer any useful help.

NOW... on with your actual question.

I suggest (from my own experience... you may find your preferences differ) using MTS between 0.25% and 0.50% (yes that's from one quarter to one half of 1%). Very little is needed and too much can quickly mute wanted flavor notes. So, for a 30mL recipe that would be 0.075 (mL OR mg) to 0.15 (mL OR mg).

Because you have not yet used MTS, I would strongly encourage you to conduct an experiment for yourself, so you can find out what MTS does for you. Remember, that much of what MTS does, is accomplished by "deadening" certain receptors on your tongue. The effects are only momentary (10-15(ish) seconds?) but everyone is effected differently.

• I would take that 30mL you are going to treat and divide it into 3 equal 10mL bottles.
  
• Leave one bottle as is (no MTS) as a "baseline" (to compare the other two to)
  
• Add 0.25% (0.025 <OK to round up to 0.03 for convenience> mL OR mg) to the second bottle
• Add 0.50% (0.05 mL OR mg) to the third bottle.
• Give all three a vigorous shaking
• Let them rest for 2-3 hours.
• Taste each using the first bottle to compare the other two to (try to taste on the same set-up/build and temperature as this will give you a more equal comparison. Also remember, if you are using the same atomizer to compare, there will be residual from the previous sample left in the wick. Re-wicking, or vaping some unflavored between samples, can help offset this.)

You may discover any of the following results:

• No difference between any of the three (in which case I would then add an additional 0.50% (0.05 mL OR mg) to BOTH samples 2 and 3 creating a 0.75% sample in sample 2, and a 1.0% sample in sample 3)
  
• Some lessening of the harshness in sample 2, and greater lessening of harshness in sample 3
• Possible loss of desired flavor notes (again, greater loss in sample 3 compared to sample 2)

I personally use this "multi-sample test" method anytime I am going to introduce MTS into a recipe because I find it only benefits a recipe about 50% of the time. As often as it helps a recipe, it will either do nothing to better the recipe, or even make the recipe worse for its inclusion.

I apologize if this sounds a little pessimistic; I just don't want to give you the impression that MTS is a cure-all.

I would like to know what you think of it after you have a chance to try it for yourself.

Hope this helps some. Have a great Day!

 

[DaveP]

IDJoel, Thanks for the extended response to the question that ChesB asked. Your answer brought the thought to mind that certain additives might be better or worse for particular issues with a DIY juice. I've heard others express their views about various additives and it's usually something like "This will do that and that will do this". I've read little about when to use AP, VW, and EM and other enhancers. Can you talk a little about why and when to use particular juice enhancers?

 

[dannyv45]

IDJoel, Thanks for the extended response to the question that ChesB asked. Your answer brought the thought to mind that certain additives might be better or worse for particular issues with a DIY juice. I've heard others express their views about various additives and it's usually something like "This will do that and that will do this". I've read little about when to use AP, VW, and EM and other enhancers. Can you talk a little about why and when to use particular juice enhancers?

IDJoel did a fantastic job at explaining vape wizard and just to recap it does work to tame harsher/predominant tobaccos but may do so at the expense of minor tobacco notes in a multi or combination tobacco mix by masking those notes..

EM although many think it's a sweetener it really is not. It works by enhancing or bringing out sweetness of an already sweetened flavor it does nothing for non sweet flavors and It can actually mask flavor. It should be used as an enhancer to add body and wetness to a mix and can meld flavors together but sometimes at the expense of muting minor notes like vape wizard does. To actually sweeten use Sucarlose or splenda type sweetener found at most vape suppliers. Don't use store bought sweeteners as those contain fillers not meant for vaping. You can also add body and thickness to a mix by using marshmallow. Use both at 1%. If you go higher then you risk coil clogging.

AP is an additive that will add nuttyness to a vape. use at 1 - 2 percent. Anymore then 2% and it starts to taste like burn corn chips. Usually used in no.5 or highway tobacco type mixes where a nutty note is desired..

For more info on additives read my blog.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/sweetening-and-additives.5007

 

[Rin13]

I've had a bottle for years and honestly forget I have it... It's probably old at this point. I'll have to do the 3 batch method illustrated above. Lately I've been doing a bit of tobaccos and it'd be interesting to see what it does/if anything.
Other additives I rarely use either. I have menthol (yuck) Koolada (yuck), Sucralose, Ethyl Maltol (which I'll occasionally use), Vanillan, Ethyl Vanillan, Trymethyl Pyrazine (spelling?) Acetyl Pyrazine, Bitter Wizard and Saline.
Most times I honestly just forget about them... I used to put Ethyl Vanillan in everything because I love the light vanilla sweetness it gives. Saline has been helpful lately... other than that... Meh.

 

[Rin13]

menthol- eucalyptus flavor and cooling sensation
Koolada- cooling sensation, supposedly minus a flavor (I still taste flavor... just not eucalyptus flavor)
Sucralose- sweetener
Ethyl Maltol- adds body, enhances sweetness but can mute flavors
Vanillan- light vanilla note and some sweetness
Ethyl Vanillan- stronger vanilla note and sweetness
Trymethyl Pyrazine- similar to AP (below) but minus the corn note... Its dry, bitter, nutty and musky. (not a fan)
Acetyl Pyrazine- if used in VERY small amounts, can enhance certain flavors. (chocolate is the main one I've seen personally... it makes it richer)
Bitter Wizard- "designed to reduce or eliminate the sweet basic taste given by PG or VG"... Never really used it
Saline- enhances flavors and adds "wetness"

 

[DaveP]

IDJoel did a fantastic job at explaining vape wizard and just to recap it does work to tame harsher/predominant tobaccos but may do so at the expense of minor tobacco notes in a multi or combination tobacco mix by masking those notes..

Yes, He did. I learn things from you guys every time a discussion turns to how to mode in DIY. I'm working through your blog now and learning a lot. I didn't realize how much information there was in your blog links!

It seems that MTS is a rescue device and not necessarily something you'd plan to use unless needed.

EM although many think it's a sweetener it really is not. It works by enhancing or bringing out sweetness of an already sweetened flavor it does nothing for non sweet flavors and It can actually mask flavor

I have used EM in a couple of recipes and it didn't work in some. Now I know why.

AP is an additive that will add nuttyness to a vape. use at 1 - 2 percent. Anymore then 2% and it starts to taste like burn corn chips. Usually used in no.5 or highway tobacco type mixes where a nutty note is desired..

AP has become an additive I'll use in low % in most of my tobaccos. It's made a huge difference in the 4 or 5 FA and Hangsen tobaccos I made almost two weeks ago. I'm vaping some Highway right now that I liked before and it's really enhanced by .4% AP. I've put more in a couple of juices and the nuttiness becomes the prime note of the juice so I backed off a little. I haven't hit the Corn Chip stage yet, but I can sense it smelling the AP bottle when it's opened. I can see how Corn Chips would be the result of too much.

 

[ChelsB]

Wow, you guys rock! THANK YOU! lots of great info!

 

[ChelsB]

menthol- eucalyptus flavor and cooling sensation
Koolada- cooling sensation, supposedly minus a flavor (I still taste flavor... just not eucalyptus flavor)
Sucralose- sweetener
Ethyl Maltol- adds body, enhances sweetness but can mute flavors
Vanillan- light vanilla note and some sweetness
Ethyl Vanillan- stronger vanilla note and sweetness
Trymethyl Pyrazine- similar to AP (below) but minus the corn note... Its dry, bitter, nutty and musky. (not a fan)
Acetyl Pyrazine- if used in VERY small amounts, can enhance certain flavors. (chocolate is the main one I've seen personally... it makes it richer)
Bitter Wizard- "designed to reduce or eliminate the sweet basic taste given by PG or VG"... Never really used it
Saline- enhances flavors and adds "wetness"

Thanks, for taking the time to reply Rin. That's very helpful

 

[IDJoel]

I've read little about when to use AP, VW, and EM and other enhancers. Can you talk a little about why and when to use particular juice enhancers?

Holy Cow! After @dannyv45 's , and especially @Rin13 's, replies I have NOTHING to add (at least that is worthwhile)!

I did just see this older thread referenced in another thread and thought it might be worthy of mention here too. I had never found it on my own, and I have yet to read through it myself so I can't comment, but here is the link for those that might like to check it out:
DIY Master Techniques - Flavor Add-on's (EM, VW, BW, MTS, ACV, ect)

It seems that MTS is a rescue device and not necessarily something you'd plan to use unless needed.

Yes and no. Some mixers will choose it, or even plan a recipe to include it, because they like its specific effect. Others (or other times) a mixer may only reach for it to add that missing accent, or correct that one little "off" note that is just driving them nuts.

I personally try to never think of additives as "rescue" agents because then they will become a crutch (for me) and make poor mixing practices acceptable. I would rather figure out what I am doing wrong first. Should I have used ingredient "B" instead of ingredient "A?" Did I use too much/not enough? Is flavor "A" not playing nice with flavor "E?" You get the idea. Then, if everything else is as good as I can get it, but there is still just a little "something" missing or not quite right, I will look to the additives to give it that last little nudge to push it over the top and make it something special.

Now, with all that high-and-mighty soapbox pontificating out of the way, have I ever bailed out a lost cause with the use of one or more additives? You bet your sweet bippy I have! I just try to do that as the exception instead of the rule.

 

[DaveP]

I personally try to never think of additives as "rescue" agents because then they will become a crutch (for me) and make poor mixing practices acceptable. I would rather figure out what I am doing wrong first.

So far I've found that AP in small amounts of .5% and under is pretty much a must for the tobacco flavor I want. I haven't actually used my one bottle of Vape Wizard yet after reading the descriptions of what it actually does. For sweeteners I've relied on caramel, English Toffee, and sometimes Cotton Candy (EM) in tiny amounts.

My biggest mistake so far is a bottle of FA Desert Ship that I mixed using Hangsen style amounts (7%). It's a red-orange colored 50ml over-flavored monstrosity that cutting with 50% unflavored didn't fix. It's probably going down the drain since it will be easier to just mix a new bottle at 1% flavoring.

 

[jambi]

I use MTS with a couple of Super Concentrates tobaccos that are very sharp and tend to have an unpleasant metallic aftertaste on their own. RY4 is one of them. It's a tricky concentrate. At 2.5 % alone I don't get enough flavor from it, and at 3.5 % the flavor is great but the aftertaste is bad. MTS at 0.50% helps, which is not to say it's a magic cure-all. MTS doesn't really add anything, actually does the opposite. It "flattens out" the sharpness and diminishes the aftertaste to a palatable state. The way I'm using it, I'd class it more as a dilutant than an additive, but I'm probably not using it as it was intended, as usual.

TFA Smooth does pretty much the same thing, but seems weaker, and I can taste Smooth (weird artificial vanilla-esque note).