Cloning Milk and Honey

[DrLucky]

The last thread was too old and getting a bit too long, so I wanted to reboot it here and see if I can strum up support for this pet project of mine!

I've been working on cloning milk and honey thanks to the ideas in this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-liquid-recipes/580905-all-you-milk-n-honey-fans.html
Special thanks Vapz1 and dpgfla for laying out a lot of the ground work.

Now it seems to be just nicobeak and I working on cloning this, so my goal in getting a new thread is to invite more people on the adventure. If you want to work on cloning this, I'd definitely read through all of the old thread to get ideas but keep in mind that nothing was quite close yet.

After vaping real Milk and Honey again, I can say for sure we were getting off track as the recipes were coming out too heavy and creamy.
Tonight I'm making two batches of this,one to crock pot overnight and the other to time steep. I'm going back to the basics as nicobeak and I seemed to think the formula may be much simpler than we expected:

Graham Cracker v2 (CAP) 5%
Peanut Butter (TFA) 1.5%
Banana Cream (TFA) 1.5%
Marshmallow (CAP) 2%
Smooth (TFA) 1%

Graham Cracker by CAP is said to have a spicy taste to it, so I am hoping that's where M&H's almost cinnamon after taste comes from
Peanut Butter adds a lot of density to the vape, so I'm trying it at low levels again
Banana Cream can be overpowering very quickly, however it does mellow and meld over time
I've tried a lot of TFA marshmallow by this point, so I'm giving the other brands a shot (I have LA's as well to test later)
I probably shouldn't try an additive like Smooth in a basic restart of this clone, but I'm really hoping it's going to give me that mouth feel M&H has and I haven't gotten to try Smooth yet.

Notable exclusions:
Vanillas and Custards: I believe a big culprit in the thickness of our old batches was from these flavors, so I'm trying dropping them entirely.
Acetl Pyrazine: I think the CAP Graham Cracker will give me the edge the recipe needs. If AP is obviously missing from the end result, it'll be the first thing I add back. Probably at 0.5 or 0.7%
Sugar Cookie doesn't seem to fit at all. Maybe the AP was throwing it off, but I was never pleased with Sugar cookie in this mix.

Also, I'm vaping all this on a 0.2 ohm quad coil set up with moderate air flow. It's what I usually vape at and gives me a constant to test with. However everyone's set up is different and will affect the flavor.... so that's just something we should keep in mind.

Please contribute any info you find if you take this on with us! If you haven't tried Cosmic Fog's Milk and Honey, pick it up next time you're at your local B&M! It's just incredible.

 

[DrLucky]

Flavors I have that may come in handy. I'll try whatever you suggest:

Dessert Ingredients:
Sugar Cookie V2 CAP
Graham Cracker V2 CAP
Graham Cracker Clear TFA
Graham Cracker Dark TFA
Cheesecake Graham Crust TFA
Caramel Original TFA
Cream Cheese Icing LA
Hazelnut FW
Hazelnut FA
Hazelnut TFA
Creamy Hazelnut LA
Toasted Almond TFA
Marshmallow CAP
Marshmallow LA
Marshmallow TFA
Toasted Marshmallow TFA
Cookie FA
Meringue FA
Yellow Cake FW
Honey FA
Honey Clover LA
Gingerbread Cookie TFA
Pumpkin Pie (Spice) CAP

Vanillas and Creams:
Sweet Cream FW
Whipped Cream TFA
Bavarian Cream TFA
Bavarian Cream LA
Malted Milk TFA
Vanilla Custard CAP
Vanilla Custard TFA
Vanilla Swirl TFA
French Vanilla Regular TFA

Sweeteners and Enhancers:
Circus Cotton Candy TFA
Brown Sugar Extra TFA
Super Sweet Liquid Sucralose Sweetener CAP
Ethyl Maltol 10% TFA

 

[Rat2chat2]

I am not sure but is Milk & Honey anything like Mothers Milk? Here is a site that has some great cloned recipes and I was not sure but thought I'd post it just in case you did not know of this site. Good luck to you though. I'm sure others will have some information for you.

Clone Recipes | Homemade E-juice Recipes

 

[DrLucky]

It's very different than mother's milk. Not malty or fruity. Thanks for the link, though.

Tried that batch this morning and I think the Graham Cracker v2 by CAP is spot on. Definitely had that spicy note that M&H has. My levels were off, though (no surprise) and all I got was a good graham cracker mix.
I'll either lower the % there next or increase the others in my test tonight.
On the old thread it was suggested to mix caramel and hazelnut to get a softer peanut butter flavor, so I'm definitely going to give that a shot.

 

[pdxjlb]

What about FAs Marshmallow? Also, Catalan Cream has a little cinnamon spice to it. Just ideas. I know you said you don't think that Sugar Cookie was doing much help to the blend, but FAs Sugar Cookie has no "custard notes" to it, it's a simple sweet baked flavor.

2 cents applied... can't wait till we get a close hit on this one!!

 

[DrLucky]

Unfortunately, I didn't order a FA Marshmallow with my last FA order, but I certainly will next time. How do you compare it to the other brands' marshmallow?
The TFA Sugar cookie ive used just didn't sit right, hard to describe. But I'm willing to try FA's as the effect you mentioned sounds perfect.

 

[DrLucky]

Last night's attempt was:

Graham Cracker v2 (CAP) 3%
Peanut Butter (TFA) 2%
Banana Cream (TFA) 2%
Marshmallow (CAP) 2%
Smooth (TFA) 1%
Acytl Pyrazine (TFA) 1%

And still the spice in the Graham Cracker was too strong. I believe it must be a combination of graham crackers. I'll try CAP at 1% and TFAs clear at 3% together in my next run.
It also needs to be smoother. Any ideas on what I can use to get that creamyness without vanilla or custard? More TFA Smooth?
While on the subject of smooth,. I'm not noticing any effect from it in the batches. I have no prior experience with Smooth, though. Does it usually require a higher percentage anyway?

 

[nicobeak]

Never used smooth, I'm not sure about it. But, I always got a little throat hit from real M&H. /u/fizzmustard told me something he tried, so I decided to give a shot, substituting for what I didn't have. The dairy was not his idea, and I definitely messed up and added too much. It has only been a day or so, so I'll continue to let it cure and see how it tastes. Right now it is too much dairy. I was thinking too literally about the name, and just got my dairy in for the first time right before I mixed. Unfortunately it is not as simple as marshmallow, milk, and honey.

Banana Cream (TFA) 2.00%
Catalan Cream (FA) 1.50%
Vanilla Bean Gelato (TFA) 2.00%
Vanilla Classic (FA) 1.00%
Acetyl Pyrazine 5% (TFA) 0.50%
Dairy/Milk (TFA) 3.00%
Almond (FA) 0.10%

Probably next time I'll keep everything the same, except cut down the dairy to 1%, add marsh 1%, and add some type of graham cracker at a low percentage. Or maybe try some TFA cheesecake graham crust at a low percentage. I always go in with the idea to keep it simple, but end up adding a bunch of extra stuff. It has been a pretty fun project, though. Good work Dr, keep those attempts coming, and I'll do the same.

 

[DrLucky]

Milk and Honey is a reference to the promise land that the judaic god promised the tribes of israel in the old testament. The promise land was rumored to be "flowing with milk and honey."
I think the name vaguely comes from the taste and more from the "heavenly" experience of vaping it. It makes me think of breathing in a sweet fluffy cloud. As the website says, "it's lighter than air."

Tonight I'm trying this:

Graham Cracker v2 (CAP) 1%
Graham Cracker (TFA) 2%
Peanut Butter (TFA) 2%
Banana Cream (TFA) 2.5%
Marshmallow ((LA) 1.5%
Smooth (TFA) 1%
Whipped Cream (TFA) 2%
AP 1%

I dropped a bit of Cheese Cake Graham crust in a shot glass of water. It has a coconut taste to it, so I'm hesitant to try it. When you do, please let us know!
It's a great project! I learn by problem solving, so this has been a great way for me to start DIY. If I just bought a bunch of flavors and tried mixing randomly to make whatever, I imagine I would have created all sorts of horrible brews.

 

[DrLucky]

So in the latest batch, the graham cracker is still coming on too strong. I'll drop both by 0.5% next time. And with that, the AP to 0.7%
Its hard to tell how well the whipped cream did, but I'm going to keep it in the next version at least.

 

[thefleck]

Definitely curious to see how this goes. Thanks for the hard work. Keep it up!

BTW, I think TFA's banana nut bread might have a hint of cinnamon. Fresh cream (FA) is another creamy one without any vanilla.

 

[DrLucky]

Thank you! We shall try!
Awesome input, they are on my "to order next" list

 

[Aheadatime]

Just based off the description I would assume that the 'spice' note you may be referring to is the honey itself. The description states that the three ingredients are marshmallows, sweet milk, and honey.

Dulce de leche, sweet cream, malted milk, or a combination thereof would be my guesses in regards to 'sweet milk'. Marshmallows is an easy one, but you'd need to find the correct vendor. Honey is the hard part. Most honeys are rancid in my experiences, and have a 'hairy cat urine' stench/taste to them. I've never tasted this juice so I can't help all that much, but I'd recommend scouting out all of the honey flavors you possibly can. I bought DIY Flavor Shack's honey many months ago, and it was the most bearable one I've used.

 

[Joe Ninja]

Just completed putting this together late this evening. Will give it a quick vape in the morning then let it sit for a week or so and vape on it again to see if there's any differences/similarities to Cosmic Fog's original.
Here's what I've got:

Nicotine juice 36 mg (100% PG) - 16.7%
PG dilutant - 15.9%
VG dilutant - 50%
Acetyl Pyrazine - 0.7%
Banana Cream (TPA) - 0.5%
Banana Nut Bread (TPA) - 0.5%
Graham Cracker Clear v2 (CAP) - 2%
Malted Milk (TPA) - 1%
Marshmallow (CAP) - 2%
MTS Vape Wizard - 0.2%
Peanut Butter (TPA) - 1.5%
Toasted Marshmallow (TPA) - 1%
Vanilla Cupcake (CAP) - 4%
Vanilla Custard v2 (CAP) - 2%
Vanilla Swirl (TPA) - 2%

50/50, PG/VG, 30ml
The smell alone is on point but sometimes things don't always taste like what they initially smelled like. Fingers crossed.

 

[DrLucky]

Mixed this batch lst night:

Graham Cracker v2 (CAP) 0.5%
Graham Cracker CLear (TFA) 1.5%
Peanut Butter (TFA) 1.5%
Banana Cream (TFA) 2.5%
Marshmallow ((LA) 2%
Smooth (TFA) 2%
Whipped Cream (TFA) 2%
AP .7%

I'll have to try some OG Milk and Honey again, but this is the closest batch I have made yet. Hopefully I'm not remembering M&H wrong!

 

[Dogeggs]

I'm sure i taste orange in it, maybe mandarin orange or orange blossom? I will have an experiment once i get some in...

 

[nicobeak]

some people get a citrus note from catalan cream, I have been using that in my attempts lately

 

[Joe Ninja]

some people get a citrus note from catalan cream, I have been using that in my attempts lately

hmm...interesting.

my next project: Mango Lassi

 

[DrLucky]

some people get a citrus note from catalan cream, I have been using that in my attempts lately

What brand?

 

[dabears34]

I have yet to find a better morning vape with coffee than Milk and Honey. I'm going to order the flavors I don't have yet and try to jump into this with you guys. Thanks for all your hard work!