14650 vs 18490 = same power?

[HilseeJ]

I'm thinking about getting a provari, but I'm a confused as to why the default battery that goes into the provari has essentially the same MAH as my epower vivi nova kit

Link to my kit:

COMPLETE E-POWER MINI VIVI NOVA KIT and 30ml juice (Free priority shipping)

- 2 ICR 14650 1050 mah 3.7 V rechargeable batteries

Link to Provari:

ProVari Variable Voltage Ecig: Best Variable Voltage E Cig Available!

http://www.provape.com/v/images/aw18490.png
(If you look at the picture it says the battery is 1100 mah. Essentially the same)

I assume that the provari battery is MUCH larger. What am I missing?

EDIT: Another random question... will a tank designed for regular sized cartos work on an XL carto? Seems like it would but I have no experience.

 

[yzer]

I have used both protected ICR 14650 (1050 mAh) and IMR 14650 (950 mAh). IMR 18500 is 1100 mAh. In my use the ICR 14650 delivers virtually the same capacity as IMR 18500.

Comparing protected ICR 14650 to IMR 14650: The ICR will show noticeably better capacity but the IMR will pack more current.

Comparing protected ICR 14650 brands: I found the Trustfire blue protected 14650 to be an excellent battery with better build quality than the generics. The Trustfire blues have an exaggerated capacity rating of 1600 mAh, they are more like 1050 mAh. I purchase protected Trustfire blue ICR 14650 from FocalPrice in China for under $4 apiece. Free shipping and takes three weeks to arrive from China. I've used a dozen of these batts in rotation for more than a year without fail.

Protected ICR is considered to be a less safe battery than IMR because protection circuits in protected ICR can fail, especially if damaged by dropping the battery.

 

[yzer]

A 510 XL carto will work with a carto tank designed for standard cartos. A standard carto will not work with a tank designed for XL cartos.

 

[yzer]

AW sells the IMR 18490/18500. Efest makes the IMR 18500. I don't know how long the AW 18490/18500 really is but the Efest 18500 in flat top actually measures 50mm in length.

 

[yzer]

Incidentally I found the E-Power 14650 in stainless steel to be a great little performer. Mine lasted 18 months in daily use and is still my primary back-up unit. The new one at CCV is identical except for the additional eGo threading feature. My older E-Power 14650 is 510 only.

These APVs work best with 1.7 to 2.0 ohm single coil devices. A 1.7 ohm Smoktech single coil carto on it will deliver a very respectable and warm vape.

The unit recently reviewed by pBusardo was crippled by a 2.4 ohm device and crappy batts that didn't fit well. My Efest IMR 14650s and Trustfire blue protected 14650s slide in and out nicely.

 

[yzer]

The pBusardo review:

 

[UncleChuck]

An 18490/18500 is not much larger than a 14650. The 14650 is actually taller than the Provari's standard battery, but the 18490 will be roughly 4mm larger in diameter. Not a very dramatic difference. With high drain batteries you basically trade a bit of capacity to increase the amount of current the battery can safely deliver. That's why IMRs of the same configuration are generally rated lower than an ICR of the same size. But, the ICR won't be able to push the power that an IMR can.

Considering the Provai will hold your setting throughout the charge of the battery, where as the epower will degrade as the battery runs down, its very possible you will get more actual use from the 18490 than you would from a higher rated ICR without voltage control. When using unregulated devices I usually change batteries around 3.6v, because when you factor in voltage sag under load you are getting pretty anemic performance by that time.

But with regulated devices the battery has a longer useful life per charge, since you can take the battery down lower without performance suffering, if that makes sense.

I'd personally suggest just getting the extension and running an 18650, most IMRs of that size are rated around 2000mah. Plus, if you get any more mods in the future,the 18650 will be more useful than the 18490/500, it seemsthe 18650 is far more common of a power source than the 18490/500.

 

[yzer]

An 18490/18500 is not much larger than a 14650. The 14650 is actually taller than the Provari's standard battery, but the 18490 will be roughly 4mm larger in diameter. Not a very dramatic difference. With high drain batteries you basically trade a bit of capacity to increase the amount of current the battery can safely deliver. That's why IMRs of the same configuration are generally rated lower than an ICR of the same size. But, the ICR won't be able to push the power that an IMR can.

Considering the Provai will hold your setting throughout the charge of the battery, where as the epower will degrade as the battery runs down, its very possible you will get more actual use from the 18490 than you would from a higher rated ICR without voltage control. When using unregulated devices I usually change batteries around 3.6v, because when you factor in voltage sag under load you are getting pretty anemic performance by that time.

But with regulated devices the battery has a longer useful life per charge, since you can take the battery down lower without performance suffering, if that makes sense.

I'd personally suggest just getting the extension and running an 18650, most IMRs of that size are rated around 2000mah. Plus, if you get any more mods in the future,the 18650 will be more useful than the 18490/500, it seemsthe 18650 is far more common of a power source than the 18490/500.

I would temper this opinion with a little more experience with eGo sized devices.

The E-Power 14650 has what I would call semi-voltage regulated electronics. This is par for the course with what most eGo-sized PVs or APVs deliver. The electronics will deliver 3.7V when the battery is charged from 3.7V to 4.2V, no load. Near 4.2V is what you will get from a freshly charged Li-ion battery with protected ICR or IMR.

So, this E-Power will deliver less than 3.7V under load and that voltage will fall as the battery charge voltage falls. When battery voltage falls below 3.7V the E-power voltage will fall quickly to an unusable level. Nonetheless, the E-power will provide a very satisfying vape so long as the battery voltage remains at 3.7V and above. The low battery signal on E-Power 14650 indicates at about 3.4V.

UncleChucK does not not understand battery sizes. The 14650 is taller and narrower than the 18500, which is shorter and fatter. The ICR 14650 has virtually the same capacity as IMR 18500.

IMR 14650 offers more power and less capacity than ICR 14650.
IMR 18500 offers the same capacity as ICR 14650 but more power. IMR 18500 offers the same capacity as ICR 14650, more capacity than IMR 14650 and the same or equal power as IMR 14650.

 

[yzer]

Updated the post above. What really matters to most people is if the APV will fit in a pocket. Length means more than width in this respect, IMHO. The less length, the better. Width differences between 14xxx and 18xxx battery series devices doesn't matter that much.

 

[tj99959]

Jeez, I think I only paid $16 for my e-power back in the day. Still have it, and even use it once in a while. It's just that it looks like I left it in a horse stall for the winter. Think there are better choices in the $57 range tho'.
I use 14650's in my Mako, and that is a good size for most things, exception being ultra low ohm use. They are as good as an 18350, but will not withstand as much load as an 18650.

 

[yzer]

Look at Tropical Vapors for the best deal on E-Power 14650 and parts.

Classic Epower 14650 Electronic Cigarette by SMOK Tech

 

[Baditude]

EDIT: Another random question... will a tank designed for regular sized cartos work with an XL carto? Seems like it would but I have no experience.

You can use an XL carto in a standard-length tank, but the end of the carto will stick out like the standard tank below with an XL length carto.

 

[UncleChuck]

UncleChucK does not not understand battery sizes. The 14650 is taller and narrower than the 18500, which is shorter and fatter. The ICR 14650 has virtually the same capacity as IMR 18500.

I'm not sure if that double negative was intentional or not, but I understand battery sizes perfectly, the first two digits are the diameter in mm and the second two are the height/lengh, again in MM. I said in my first post that the 14650 will be taller than the Provari's stock battery, but the Provari's (18490/500) will be larger in diameter, by roughly 4mm as I said. Larger diameter batteries will also be capable of greater current.

As far as the regulation, some eGos and the Epower do lower the voltage of the internal battery in order to maintain a longer run time at that specific voltage, but they have no way of boosting the voltage to maintain a good vape (not talking about twists or spinners, just talking about the epower) once the voltage falls. My basic point was that even if the rated capacity of the battery is lower, you could potentially get longer actual run times due to the ability of the Provari to boost the voltage to acceptable levels once the battery begins to die. The voltage sag on skinny batteries like 14xxx is also higher than fatter batteries like the 18xxxs, which will give additional run time due to the battery still being able to supply enough power as the charge lowers.

 

[yzer]

I'm not sure if that double negative was intentional or not, but I understand battery sizes perfectly, the first two digits are the diameter in mm and the second two are the height/lengh, again in MM. I said in my first post that the 14650 will be taller than the Provari's stock battery, but the Provari's (18490/500) will be larger in diameter, by roughly 4mm as I said. Larger diameter batteries will also be capable of greater current.

As far as the regulation, some eGos and the Epower do lower the voltage of the internal battery in order to maintain a longer run time at that specific voltage, but they have no way of boosting the voltage to maintain a good vape (not talking about twists or spinners, just talking about the epower) once the voltage falls. My basic point was that even if the rated capacity of the battery is lower, you could potentially get longer actual run times due to the ability of the Provari to boost the voltage to acceptable levels once the battery begins to die. The voltage sag on skinny batteries like 14xxx is also higher than fatter batteries like the 18xxxs, which will give additional run time due to the battery still being able to supply enough power as the charge lowers.

You neglect the fact that any VV, VV/VW APV or PV with a voltage booster circuit can do the same thing as a Provari, including Sigelei Zmax, Vamo,etc. Provari is not alone in providing a voltage boost circuit by any means.

 

[Baditude]

You neglect the fact that any VV, VV/VW APV or PV with a voltage booster circuit can do the same thing as a Provari, including Sigelei Zmax, Vamo,etc. Provari is not alone in providing a voltage boost circuit by any means.

The Provari's Accuset Technology does it better, though.

 

[yzer]

I can only shake my head in disbelief when the Provari fanboys try to defend their product against a $25 battery mod.

 

[UncleChuck]

You neglect the fact that any VV, VV/VW APV or PV with a voltage booster circuit can do the same thing as a Provari, including Sigelei Zmax, Vamo,etc. Provari is not alone in providing a voltage boost circuit by any means.

I didn't mention any other devices, because the OP was talking about a Provari, not a Vamo or a Zmax. He was curious about the batteries, not asking for advice on other variable voltage and/or wattage PVs. If he was, I would have gladly given my input on those. I'm not really sure why you are trying to find something incorrect about my posts, but feel free to continue if it makes you happy.

The Provari's regulation is superior to all the cheap china VW mods though, and that's coming from someone who's main device is a Vamo, I'm hardly a Provari fanboy, I can't stand how they look, but their performance can't be matched by the current crop of chinamods.

 

[Baditude]

I can only shake my head in disbelief when the Provari fanboys try to defend their product against a $25 battery mod.

Not really defending the Provari, just stating my opinion as are you.

Doesn't matter to many, but the Provari on an oceloscope performs better than the cheaper PWM APV's. Will every vapor notice the difference in their vape? Probably not the majority. I just know from my personal experience that my two Provari's give a noticably better vaping experience than my Smoktech or Segelei VV mods.

 

[RedhatPat]

I dunno about you folks, with all your book learnin' but I wouldn't wanna use any battery that has "fire" in the name

 

[yzer]

Hey, some of the Trustfires are OK. Ultrafires, not so much. Beware of those who paint generalities with broad strokes. Especially if they have zero experience with brand X battery in a specific size.